k7s5a/830LR motherboard replacement

[GrowingSlowly]

I'm thinking replacement. I have the PC chips 830 mb and it just won't work right. Posts, bootsup, will give me 640x480, but if I load the Sis agp drivers....the black screen of death. I can then go to safe mode and disable the sis agp drivers from the device manager and I can run again. Even wasted my money buying windows XP pro to see if that would help. So close, so close.

Now, If I replace this, what are the best price/performance options??? I would like to keep this under a $100.

I currently have a 2000 XP, 256 mb sdram, gforce Ti 4200, 400W ps.

PS: Will I need to buy and adapter to fit the new mb into my old case? I think it is called a metel mounting board or somthing like that.

Thanks

[BipolarBill]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=N82E16813130354

Easy installation and supports all current AMD CPUs. Purty too. :)

[Peter M]

I'd say sort the problem, don't replace the mainboard. Is the AGP card seated right? Does your system PSU have enough power to feed the card and processor? Is your RAM OK?

[GrowingSlowly]

Wouldn't the fact that it can boot in safe mode indicate that the ram is OK (256mb Kingston SDRAM)? It also counts up correctly during the bootup process. It has a 400w PSU. Is a conflict possible between the video DDR and the motherboard SDRAM? Kinda grasping at straws right now.

I will reset the video one more time just to make sure. But I do think that if it were the video, then it wouldn't come up at all.

[BipolarBill]

Try another video card. It would be a shame to spend more money on another mainboard only to discover that the video card was bad.

[Peter M]

Safe mode is Cautious mode. Not much happens there - particularly the drivers for all the performance stuff (that, consequently, uses lots of power) aren't even loaded.

BIOS just counts the RAM, it doesn't test it. Once you saw how long a real RAM test takes, you'll understand why. www.memtest86.com

Besides, the big nice 400W sticker on the PSU says niente about its quality. For a start, go have a look at what BIOS says the voltages are.

[BipolarBill]

I should add that if you're not using the CD setup to install the AGP driver, you may be loading the wrong one. Always use the CD setup program to install drivers - browsing and downloading the wrong driver will get you in deep doo-doo.

[herosrest]

Have you set the AGP aperture and init Agp in Bios.

[herosrest]

There is a huge ongoing thred here : http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011129009082.htm

You may be unique however with video probs.

[GrowingSlowly]

This is far to much noise for a popular product. Following the line on the ECS board seems to indicate that perhaps it has been adapted far to much. Stretched to far trying to remain up to date. I just wish that I had read all these experiences before I purchased. I will try a few more things.

[GrowingSlowly]

I will add that the problems really started when I tried to load the drivers from the installation CD. The supplier informed me that those drivers were old and that new drivers were on the web site. They didn't help. Nither did the purchase of Windows XP. I am going to run the mem tests on the ram. Like I said, I think the board is just dated.

[BipolarBill]

You could very well have a defective board, but the series itself is quite sound. I've built 7 of these myself and had only 2 niggling little issues which I worked around successfully.

The reason that you see so many "issues" with the board is because more of them have been sold than any other mainboard in history. Considering this fact, it's not unusual to see some real hardware issues now and then.

[GrowingSlowly]

Well, the memory checks out OK. Peter, you were right. It is quite a long test. Took over 2 hours. Now, what am I left with. Operating system OK, Memory OK, Boots in safe mode, crashes when the AGP drivers are loaded. I will try and have the video checked out with a friends computer. If that checks out then I can only guess that a) the board is not compatable with the video (Gforce Ti 4200 64DDR), or something is not right with the board or its setup.

[GrowingSlowly]

Bill, what type of video are you putting in those machines? Any problems? Ever use the Nvida cards? Thanks.

[herosrest]

I had a thought. Back awhile l had video\sound probs with sis620
and eventually tracked it down to Directx versioning.

So .... http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/3365/

there may be some clues for you here

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/3365/

:)

[herosrest]

more... a fog is lifting - have you tried setting up the video as AGP2x .. just to get into windows for a proper hardware detect.

Also some fodder for the techs .. is this one of the boards with the early super pipelining feature NO scrub that last it was Via.

[BipolarBill]

Originally posted by GrowingSlowly
Bill, what type of video are you putting in those machines? Any problems? Ever use the Nvida cards? Thanks. All nVidia - TNT2/TNT2 M64/GF2 GTS/GF2 Ti/GF4 MX

[herosrest]

there's a driver here which has cured this problem for some.



http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/others/Test_driver1.zip


Sorry these are Via drivers.

[herosrest]

Sorry for the over enthusiasm... i'm solving a couple of my own niggling problems with this thread.

Another thing that happened with Sis was windows failing to recognise monitors during hardware detects.

[BipolarBill]

It all traces back to the AGP drivers. If they are not right, nothing on the display end will work. Monitor detection is dependent upon the proper adapter drivers being installed.

[herosrest]

I popped into the Pc hips support pages ( shambles ) to checkout drivers and moved rather swiftly to the SIS sites pages ...

There are some very recent updates there - including very new AGP stuff .. That was the good news.

Now l may be wrong here - but - sniffin around it looks like the board
went through several revisions, which given its time of release meant updated AMD processor designs, new mem timings/bus speeds, updated directx etc.... soooo there will be a solution
but it would mean you setting aside a few hours and researching
YOUR board rather than the brand name. Ie the mobo level etc..


That's my view on it.... please any knowing better - flame away.

:)

[GrowingSlowly]

Bill, when you build a board do you 1)Install the AGP drivers then 2)DirectX and 3) detonator drivers? I have found that if I reformat the hard drive, skip step 1) and go directly to step 2) that I can get the display working. But if I then load the AGP drivers it will lock up on me and I can only get to safe mode. Question??? Will I have the performance that I should have without the AGP drivers??? How can I tell what speed the card is running at?

[BipolarBill]

*sigh*

What "speed" are you talking about?

Since Windows has some type of DX included already, I install the AGP driver. When I say AGP driver, I mean the first thing that comes up on the ECS CD.

If I find out that you've been trying to install your card drivers before the motherboard drivers, I'm gonna be sooooo mad.

[GrowingSlowly]

LOL:D No No No. I do install the motherboard drivers first. The only thing is that as soon as I do, then on the next restart it locks up. I did try ONE time to load the video card driver first and was able to boot up normally. It makes no sense. I do know that if, in the device manager under system devices, I have the sis agp system enabled then it will lock up. I can go in under safe mode and disable the sis agp system and not lock up on the next restart.

I was looking around on the sis web site and found some similar FAQ's dealing with the other type motherboards. It seems that one of the solutions dealt with reflashing the BIOS. I think I need to find the right one.

Bill, you seem to be everywhere on these boards. Thanks so much for your help.

[GrowingSlowly]

Did some more checking and found this. If I boot in safe mode, open the device manager, open system devices and disable the "Sis processor to AGP Controller", then the system will boot up all the way (it does tend to lock up after a while and is not stable). Now it seems to me that the AGP controller is a part of the motherboard and if it is malfunctioning then the board is defective. Does this sound right?

And Merry Christmas to all. :) :) :)

[Peter M]

No ... something else might go wrong that doesn't get used when there's no AGP - like the graphics card malfunctioning in its native mode (rather than VGA compatible), the power supply unit might fail to feed the accelerated graphics modes, the installed drivers might not work right, those kinds of things. Damaged chipset hardly ever happens.

[herosrest]

Hi. GS. Xp2000 and 256 mb sdram - what is your bios CAS setting.

Friends just gave there boy an AMD xmas prezzy - guess what the first thing he did was. Speed it up (weird... but). It was so fast it wouldn't work any more. lol.

[GrowingSlowly]

Hi Hero. I am just using the default settings in the BIOS. But now I seem to have a bigger problem. During one of the test runs, windows crashed. Now my system no longer detects the HD during boot up. Keeps asking me for a boot disk. I don't have a boot disk for XP. It won't read the XP cd anymore. If I toasted the hard drive I am going to be PO'ed. Where are all the utilities for XP?? Looks like fourth and long here guys.

[BipolarBill]

The default BIOS settings are set to IDE0 first in the K7S5A. If you want to boot from the CD, you have to set the boot sequence in BIOS setup.

Make sure there's no floppy in the drive.

[herosrest]

Hi. GS.

The hard drive is fine.
Once things start going wrong it's a cascade.
You need to get some kind of stable setup to work from.
Get the hard drive thing turned around and use the default display drivers - try Super VGA.



Check out windows update site and see what it offers.

:t

[$1500-P4 gamer]

This si the order I do drivers in
Mobo drivers (most up to date)
Video card drivers (install DX first if needed to run install)
Then sound and modem nic and etc.
Now on some systems I've had the dx go south after all that cause of drivers and stuff fooling with it.
M$ knowledge base says to reinstall DX after all system drivers are installed if this happens. More than once it helped me out.;)

[GrowingSlowly]

Hi Bill. the Bios is set to read floppy/cd/ide0. It just skips them all and asks for a bootable floppy. I thought that I should reformat and reloads windows but I can't even far enough into the process to do this. I tried to give it the boot disk for Win98 (I thought that I would still be able to reformat using the format/fdisk/scandisk commands) but I get a message similar to 'no Fat32 fromat detected' or 'corrupted hard disk can't continue'. I even tried the Western Digital installation disk and it gives a similar message. Heck, it even starting giving me information about warranties and RMA forms. I am going in reverse here now.:mad:

[BipolarBill]

Most people don't know that you can select the bootable device on the K7S5A each time you boot - without entering BIOS setup. Just press F8 during POST. First, set BIOS to defaults. Now, set the boot sequence to IDE0 first with nothing else. If you press F8, manually select a properly set up CDROM drive and it doesn't work, the disk is bogus.

[GrowingSlowly]

Peter. Several times you have mentioned the power supply. I wanted to ask you how you would test it. Do you hang a large resistive load on it and measure the voltage across the load? I mean 400 Watts is a lot of power to dissipate.

Also let just say that I really appreciate all the input from everyone. Some background on me. I have a good understanding of electricity (Ohms law and what not). I successfully overclocked my old Pentium 200 mmx to 225 back in 1998 using unpublished jumper settings on my Biostar MB (75MHz bus speed). I would have gone for more if my chip wasn't clocklocked. It has ran fine for many years and I kinda stopped keeping up with the technology. Life had other adventures that pulled me away. Now I am in catchup mode bigtime. I never felt that putting a system together was beyond me. I followed the instructions on my new system carefully and everything went well until it came time to load the drivers. Then I started getting errors such as "windows cannot find drivers for your hardware in this location". This was followed by the system lockups. I have gone back and traced my steps several times only to wind up at the same place. My experience is telling me that there is something that is just not right here. I just can't find it.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will keep looking.:t

[Peter M]

No, such a resisitive load test just lets you prove the maximum output claim. The bigger problem with **** PSUs is the regulation quality - any mainboard wants its voltages stable and exact, tolerances being very small. 5V rail may never dip below 4.9V, 3.3V must stay above 3.2V always and ever. It's the sudden steep load changes produced by today's CPUs and graphics cards that separate the real PSUs from the wannabes.

This is really hard to analyze, you need to hook up oscillographs to the voltage lines to see this. All Joe Average can do is listen to previous good/bad experience.

[GrowingSlowly]

Yikes! Peter, that is what I thought you might have to do. I will say that when I bought this setup, it orginally came with a 300 W ps. I paid extra for the larger ps just to avoid any complications (pays to read all the posts here). Also it crashes before I really make any demands of the video card....on bootup to windows. I guess the voltage readings in the Bios don't really tell much. *sigh*

Gonna change my name to Growing Weary.:D

[GrowingSlowly]

Looks more and more like a tosted hard drive now. I can't boot up. If I try and run setup, Windows fails when trying to format. It locks up and finally gives me the message "Partmgr.sys - Page_Fault_in_nonpage_Area". It wants me to uninstall any new hardware (there is none), boot to safe mode (can't get that far), or play with BIOS settings. 40 gig HD at 7200 RPM Grrrrrrr!:mad:

[Peter M]

Time for a RAM check. www.memtest86.com

[BipolarBill]

Yes - and a full drive scan w/surface check.

[GrowingSlowly]

Peter, I just did the RAM check two days ago. It passed all the tests.

Bill, how do I do a scan when I can only get as far as the BIOS check?

[lptech]

I think that either the AGP card might not be getting enough power to it or that the Power Supply Unit is not adequate! Manufacturers always try their best to make their product look good but the bottom line is how well it could provide stable and clean output power to power up all that is connected to it! Here's a link you should take a look at:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html

If the AGP card is not getting enough power then it is the motherboard that you should replace (might not be able to supply enough wattage for the videocard)! Some mobo design does not compensate for the fact that some power users are going to use videocards w/ more that 32MB of RAM onboard and since your mobo is not considered a high end mobo that might be the case. Did you know that there is a difference between a standard AGP slot and an AGP Pro slot? A standard AGP slot can provide up to 25 watts to the videocard whereas an AGP Pro slot can provide up to 50 watts of power to the videocard. Please note the difference and check what your videocard specs and requirements are. In any case, let us know about your progress as we here at Sysopt are interested helping one another out. Good luck. :)

[BipolarBill]

Originally posted by GrowingSlowly
Bill, how do I do a scan when I can only get as far as the BIOS check? How did you do the RAM check?

[Peter M]

lptech, sorry, that bit about "quality mainboards" is plain bull. The AGP slot is supplied its 3.3V directly from the power supply unit, all the mainboard can do is some decoupling. If there's not enough incoming juice, then no money in the world and no mainboard design effort will magically make it appear.

And besides, AGP Pro uses a larger connector with more power pins so as not to burn up the slot contacts. Cards of course must have a mating connector. None of the popular mainstream cards are AGP Pro.

[GrowingSlowly]

Sorry Bill. You are right. I do get through the BIOS check and can check the RAM. It is what comes after that where this thing fails. But as I said before, my RAM passed only a couple of days ago. Do I need to check it again? Do you think something may have happened to it? I will run this again just for the heck of it.

[BipolarBill]

I hope you're no referring to the BIOS RAM check. You mean Memtest86?

[GrowingSlowly]

Yes Bill. I just ran it again today. No problems detected.

[GrowingSlowly]

memtest86 that is.

[GrowingSlowly]

Well, the hard drive is dead. All it does now is click LOUDLY and make a frying bacon like sound when I try and start up the PC. The memory is OK according to memtest86. What a disaster this has been.

Now, for new plans.

1) The company I order the PC from has offered to take it back, fix the problems and then send it back to me. I don't like that idea because of the high shipping costs (I am assuming that I will have to pay those). It was $46 dollars the first time. There and back would be $92 (est.)

2) They are suppose to have a return policy to take back the system but they mention a 20% restocking fee (along with shipping). That would be about $90 (est.)

3) Keep what I have. Order a better MB from newegg and fix it myself (I think I would stay away from ECS and PCchips). There are several good writeups on installing MB's in these forums. Option 3 does leave me with the rest of the equipment including the power supply which many here have questioned. I tried to find the name, but all I can find is the model #LPK2-30, Serial #0210098828 and that it is made in Thailand. No brand name. I did remove it and look all over the outside.

I am going to contack Western Digital. I think I can get the hard drive replace under warrenty. I check out the website and they seem to have a good return policy and I still have all the packaging. I just don't know how long it will take.

What do you think? Suggestions are very welcome.

[BipolarBill]

PLEASE stop blaming the motherboard. You're ticking me off big time. You have your proof what the problem was the whole time and you're still looking for a reason to hate the ECS.

Replace the dammed HDD and get on with it!

[Peter M]

Originally posted by BipolarBill
PLEASE stop blaming the motherboard. You're ticking me off big time. You have your proof what the problem was the whole time and you're still looking for a reason to hate the ECS.

Replace the dammed HDD and get on with it!

Hey! Biting people's head off for pulling the ECS stereotype is MY JOB on this board! ;)

[BipolarBill]

Oops....:(

[BipolarBill]

One more thing - if you jumper some IDE drives as master and there's no slave present, you may get strange system problems that emulate other known issues. Safest practice is to jumper all HDDs as Cable Select (CS).

[crucibelle]

GS - you asked for opinions, so here is mine (humble, of course :)):

Replace the HDD and buy the Sparkle 300 watt psu from Newegg - it's only 33 or 34 something with shipping. See if everything works fine for you then. If it doesn't and you decide that you want to replace the mobo, just get another K7s5a/pc chips or a Biostar M7VIG.

-jeanna