What performance will this give me?

[SocialChaos]

Ok Guys, I have a small question...my new box I'm building, lets call it system #1, is:

MSI 845G Max-L motherboard
Pentium 4 2.4Ghz (Northwood) 512K 533FSB processor
512MB DDR333 PC2700 RAM
Intel Extreme Graphics on-board video

My other old machine, lets call it system #2, is:

Abit BF-6 motherboard
Pentium 3 500Mhz Slot 1 processor
512MB PC100 SDRAM
Hercules GeForce 2 MX400 32MB video


Which one will perform better on EverQuest? Will the lack of an aftermarket video card actually make machine #1 fall behind, or can it still outperform machine #2 with raw CPU and RAM power?

Also, can you guys look at this link http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductList.jsp?ThirdCategoryCode=011112 and tell me which one will give the best performance NOT overclocked, I just want to buy nice DDR333 PC2700 RAM...not something thats cheap. Is the Corsair XMS is actually worth buying for me not to overclock...?

[BipolarBill]

The new P4 system will stomp that dinosaur! :)

The Kingston RAM would work fine if you're not OCing. Me? I like the Geil, baby!

[Rugor]

The new machine should, and will, outperform the old one UNLESS Everquest requires 32-bit color in 3D-accelerated mode. In that case the new one may well not run it at all since Intel's extreme graphics are notable for not supporting 3D acceleration in 32-bit color.

I would really advise getting a video card for the new machine as a P4 2.4GHz with integrated graphics is terminally hobbled for gaming.

If the motherboard doesn't have an AGP slot I don't advise buying the system.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Teh onboard vid is gonan hold you back somewhats

Get a 128mb ti4200 gf4 and get it overclcoked to ti'4500' speed ;)

--Jakk:t

[Peter M]

Intel's onboard graphics indeed are extreme. On the wrong end though. They extremely suck. I wouldn't be surprised if the old thing, with its graphics card of mentionable properties, was faster.

[deadkenny]

Wow Peter, I think that's the funniest post I've ever seen by you. :D Is that really you or did someone else sign-in using your ID? Anyway, I gotta agree, the video card is the key for any 3D games. The only onboard that would even come close to an AGP video card is the nForce2 with dual channel memory (I say dual channel because the onboard uses system memory and the higher bandwidth of the dual channel is really necessary for decent onboard video performance.) Given the cost of the rest of the P4 system, it must be worth the bit extra to put some kind of video card on it (I'm assuming that mobo has an AGP slot).

[SocialChaos]

Ok, so what if I went with 256MB of the XMS memory and a GeForce 4 ti4200, would that perform better than just 512MB of XMS and the on-board stuff?

[BipolarBill]

Why don't you just get the motherboard and use the Xtreme Graphics until you can upgrade? Why do you need to have it right now?

[deadkenny]

Depends on the particular app, but for 3D games the GF4 wins by a mile.

[bushmaster]

Buy the new set-up and rip the vid card out of the old set-up and use that till you can afford one of the newer cards out when the prices drop. Then you'll be stylin brudder.

[SocialChaos]

Well, see the old machine has to stay up, with no parts from it being brought over to the new machine....so with my budget at the moment I have to choose between 256MB XMS and the ti4200, or just the 512MB XMS and no card, just the on-board...I mainly just play EverQuest, which uses large textures on their maps.

[Rugor]

Personally in that case I would suggest, with GREAT reluctance, that you may have to get the 512mb RAM simply because there is at least one pack for EQ that requires that much RAM. However, if you don't have an AGP slot don't buy that machine. You may want to go to somewhat less agressive timings on your RAM and pick up a cheap vid card on the side.

Newegg has a Sapphire Radeon 9000 listed for $66, and while it's not competition for a Gf4 Ti4200 it's a real vid card. Even hunting the bargain bins for a $30-40 Gf2MX would be an improvement over the Intel Extreme Slideshow.

[Someone Stupid]

"Intel extreme slideshow" LOL

Does your board have an AGP slot, many with intel onboard graphics don't. Since the graphics controllers on the board are at the bleeding edge of technology (more like bled so much they are about to die from blood loss) they generally can't be arsed to put an AGP slot on the board, those few dollars extra in fab cost would kill them. :rolleyes:

[SocialChaos]

Yes it does have a 4X AGP slot on it, and I plan to add a video card either now or in a couple of weeks....but the main thing is, will EQ even be playable if I go with the 512MB PC2700 RAM now and Geforce 4 ti4200 later, or better off if I get 256MB PC2700 RAM and GeForce ti4200 now.

[deadkenny]

Yes the P4 board being discussed has an AGP slot. If it didn't then it definitely would not be worth while getting an AGP video card. :rolleyes:

Looks like a trade off. In the short term the video card will give you better gaming performance. However, the price of the video cards will likely fall faster than the price of the memory, so from that perspective it might make sense to get the memory now and hold off on the card. Quite a dilemma.

[Rugor]

Yes the P4 board being discussed has an AGP slot. If it didn't then it definitely would not be worth while getting an AGP video card.

I'd rephrase that to say if the board dind't have an AGP slot it would not be worth while getting the motherboard.

Since it does I would suggest seeing if you can find enough extra money to buy ANY 3D video card, even an old TNT2.

[Rugor]

Looking at this thread I am going to presume that you have already examined and discarded an AMD based solution for the new computer.

Having said that, at present AMD is the only way to go if you intend doing even moderate gaming on an integrated graphics solution. The original nforce 420 chipset's gf2mx integrated graphics on a 128-bit DDR memory bus is the only integrated video solution currently available that at least meets the minimum requirements for current games. When the IGP variant of nforce2 is released it will be better, though still not as good as an add-in solution.

If you're not looking at an AMD/nforce solution don't expect to even be able to run all current games on an integrated graphics platform. Both Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind require 32-bit color which Intel Extreme Slideshow doesn't support.

I am not saying this to tell you to go out and switch to AMD, but rather because nvidia is the only chipset maker to consider the needs of even moderate gamers on an integrated graphics platform. Sadly, they don't have a P4 license and until or unless they get one I can see this problem recurring.

The problem I see is that both of the options listed will give at best marginal results in EQ.

[SocialChaos]

Yeah i'm really torn on what to get...if i get the 512MB PC2700 instead of the GeForce 4 ti4200 and Everquest is unplayable i'd be disappointed....so many different answers really have me wondering if i'd be screwed getting the 512MB and holding off on the GeForce 4...the thing is...the cheaper route is going 512MB RAM, the more expensive one is getting th 256MB RAM and GeForce 4 ti4200...but it really doesn't matter on the money issue i just have never tried it out so i don't know how the on-board stuff would do in Everquest.

[deadkenny]

I'll throw out another suggestion, how about something like a GF3Ti200 128MB and 256MB of DDR for now. Take the 'savings' from the video card and get the other stick of 256MB RAM asap.

[cheapster]

Taking DeadKenney's suggestion one step further, even a Geforce 2 GTS 32 mb card would provide better graphics than the onboard Intel graphics, and could probably be found used for $30 or so. maybe you could even still squeeze in 512 MB of ram to go with it. But failing that, the idea of the Geforce 3 Ti200 with 256 mb of system ram would provide even better graphics with full DirectX 8 support.