waderw24
11-06-2002, 09:12 PM
Can anyone help me find some info on PII vs. P4? I am looking for graphs, performance benchmarks,etc. Pretty much I need to prove to my boss why I need a new machine.
Thanks in advance.
Rob
Thanks in advance.
Rob
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Pentium 2 vs. Pentium 4
NDD
11-06-2002, 10:14 PM
Welcome to SysOpt ! :)
I don't believe those were ever compaired, the difference would be too big :)
I don't believe those were ever compaired, the difference would be too big :)
causticVapor
11-06-2002, 10:19 PM
yep, gigahertz differences right there... even though, you'll be surprised to know waderw, the PII is more efficient than the P4.
However, try bringing it up there! 27Vcore! Pop! (just kidding)
However, try bringing it up there! 27Vcore! Pop! (just kidding)
OpK Chowdy
11-07-2002, 01:49 AM
what is the fastest P2? isn't it like 600mhz or so?
sandeep
11-07-2002, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by OpK Chowdy
what is the fastest P2? isn't it like 600mhz or so?
The fastest p2 was 450mhz
Then the p3 450 mhz came out
You would be better of comparing the p4 with 256k cache and the one with 512k cache!
:) ;)
what is the fastest P2? isn't it like 600mhz or so?
The fastest p2 was 450mhz
Then the p3 450 mhz came out
You would be better of comparing the p4 with 256k cache and the one with 512k cache!
:) ;)
BiG MiKeY
11-07-2002, 03:56 AM
personally id go to tomshardware.com and fine some graphs and if ure boss is a cheapskate forget p4 go amd :t half the price, arguably in the same class
NDD
11-07-2002, 10:00 PM
"The truth lies right before you, you just need to be wise enough to find it". Or however it goes :D
SiSoft Sandra got a lot of "older" computers to compare with in its database :)
SiSoft Sandra got a lot of "older" computers to compare with in its database :)
BadBadNeil
11-08-2002, 05:18 PM
run benchmarks using your computer adn then find PIV benchmarks and make a graph.
Evidence.
Evidence.
Kurylo
11-08-2002, 05:26 PM
P4 is better than AMD. But you have to pay for speed and abilities.
AllGamer
11-08-2002, 06:01 PM
:confused:
dream on pal )-|
if you pair an AMD vs an Intel of the same clock, intel is way Toasted dead in the start line :D
dream on pal )-|
if you pair an AMD vs an Intel of the same clock, intel is way Toasted dead in the start line :D
Kurylo
11-08-2002, 06:17 PM
P4 is more technological and up-to-date to say so.
AMD utilizes the last maximums from the old architectures: 2800+ is NOT OCable at all.
And, sometimes we need MHz, which P4 has more than enough.
AMD utilizes the last maximums from the old architectures: 2800+ is NOT OCable at all.
And, sometimes we need MHz, which P4 has more than enough.
Kurylo
11-08-2002, 06:21 PM
BTW if the utility is optimized for P4, it kisks AMD's @$$ and leaves it in the knockdown. Just wait until more programs get optimized for P4 - it will surely be, because AMD again (as always?) has negative budget.
Kurylo
11-08-2002, 06:25 PM
INTEL IS THE FUTURE !!! (http://www.intel.com)
AlexGee
11-08-2002, 07:28 PM
An Intel biatch, eh Kurylo? Well, I'm with you, sort of. I don't care if you get performance from clock speed or chip design so comparing clock for clock seems to prove nothing much. All I care about is performance. But I own AMD for the simple reason it is best bang for the buck and my bucks have taken enough of a banging from my technology addiction. If I had big bucks I would of course get a top of the line P4, for now at least. Time will tell who wins this war but it's hard to bet against chipzilla. I just thank God we have the competing giants! Better products at ever cheaper prices. Competition baby! Good ol free market forces at work.
Giblet Plus!
11-08-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Kurylo
BTW if the utility is optimized for P4, it kisks AMD's @$$ and leaves it in the knockdown. Just wait until more programs get optimized for P4 - it will surely be, because AMD again (as always?) has negative budget.
We don't need another amd vs intel thread, but here I go:
Even with the P4's optimizations, a $100 Amd could waste a $100 dollar P4, even if they're overclocked. Smart people don't buy per mhz, they buy per dollar.
BTW if the utility is optimized for P4, it kisks AMD's @$$ and leaves it in the knockdown. Just wait until more programs get optimized for P4 - it will surely be, because AMD again (as always?) has negative budget.
We don't need another amd vs intel thread, but here I go:
Even with the P4's optimizations, a $100 Amd could waste a $100 dollar P4, even if they're overclocked. Smart people don't buy per mhz, they buy per dollar.
OpK Chowdy
11-08-2002, 08:34 PM
No bad language, plz :) ND / Moderator need to stop bashing companies unless the title of the thread signifies otherwise. This thred states "Pentium 2 vs Pentium 4." Where do you even get AMD from?
Intel owns if you have the dough, and AMD owns if you don't. a $100 AMD will own a $100 Intel, but a top-of-the-line Intel will own its AMD counterpart.
Intel owns if you have the dough, and AMD owns if you don't. a $100 AMD will own a $100 Intel, but a top-of-the-line Intel will own its AMD counterpart.
BiG MiKeY
11-08-2002, 09:09 PM
i know i was mearly suggestin the fact that if his boss is as cheap as he is wouldnt he be happier spendin less for an amd. bang for the buck pretty much
Kurylo
11-09-2002, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by AlexGee
An Intel biatch, eh Kurylo? Well, I'm with you, sort of. I don't care if you get performance from clock speed or chip design so comparing clock for clock seems to prove nothing much. All I care about is performance. But I own AMD for the simple reason it is best bang for the buck and my bucks have taken enough of a banging from my technology addiction. If I had big bucks I would of course get a top of the line P4, for now at least. Time will tell who wins this war but it's hard to bet against chipzilla. I just thank God we have the competing giants! Better products at ever cheaper prices. Competition baby! Good ol free market forces at work.
101% pure truth!
An Intel biatch, eh Kurylo? Well, I'm with you, sort of. I don't care if you get performance from clock speed or chip design so comparing clock for clock seems to prove nothing much. All I care about is performance. But I own AMD for the simple reason it is best bang for the buck and my bucks have taken enough of a banging from my technology addiction. If I had big bucks I would of course get a top of the line P4, for now at least. Time will tell who wins this war but it's hard to bet against chipzilla. I just thank God we have the competing giants! Better products at ever cheaper prices. Competition baby! Good ol free market forces at work.
101% pure truth!
Kurylo
11-09-2002, 05:43 AM
BTW, to the theme of the thread, P4 is way faster than P2, but P2 is way cheaper than P4.
sandeep
11-09-2002, 05:46 AM
I have said this many times before. Here we go again ( read on my long story)
I was an avid AMD fan, and often mocked Intel's poor excuse for a processor that was the P4. I finally broke down and bought a P4 2.0 and was shocked by how easy it was to put together. I've built plenty of systems, and my most recent computers were 1.33Ghz & 1.4Ghz Athlons, with big beefy fans & heatsinks to keep them cool enough in the summer .I run very intense prime number testing programs, which puts a lot of stress on the system, high temperatures caused random crashes, and other weird occurances
Unfortunately, this made my computers incredibly loud and my living room sounded like a wind tunnel. Installing the heatsinks were also problematic, in that it was tricky holding one part of it down, then using a pen to lift the 'doohicky' up and over its hook. This fun procedure broke one hook (which in turn led to the subsequent frying of a 1.2Ghz athlon), and cracked another 1.4Ghz athlon core as the heatsink slipped during installation.
All of a sudden, the $30 I saved on AMD started getting very expensive. The standard fan that came w/ my 2.0Ghz P4 was extremely simple to install, and almost impossible for a normal person to break anything. The fan is practically silent and Intel's built in thermal protection technology will slow the processor down to bring the CPU within acceptible thermal specs rather than let the CPU burn out. That means I don't have to worry about the summer heat making my computers lock up.
I've since bought this P4 2.4Ghz processor and I love it. My living room is much quieter noW.
I was an avid AMD fan, and often mocked Intel's poor excuse for a processor that was the P4. I finally broke down and bought a P4 2.0 and was shocked by how easy it was to put together. I've built plenty of systems, and my most recent computers were 1.33Ghz & 1.4Ghz Athlons, with big beefy fans & heatsinks to keep them cool enough in the summer .I run very intense prime number testing programs, which puts a lot of stress on the system, high temperatures caused random crashes, and other weird occurances
Unfortunately, this made my computers incredibly loud and my living room sounded like a wind tunnel. Installing the heatsinks were also problematic, in that it was tricky holding one part of it down, then using a pen to lift the 'doohicky' up and over its hook. This fun procedure broke one hook (which in turn led to the subsequent frying of a 1.2Ghz athlon), and cracked another 1.4Ghz athlon core as the heatsink slipped during installation.
All of a sudden, the $30 I saved on AMD started getting very expensive. The standard fan that came w/ my 2.0Ghz P4 was extremely simple to install, and almost impossible for a normal person to break anything. The fan is practically silent and Intel's built in thermal protection technology will slow the processor down to bring the CPU within acceptible thermal specs rather than let the CPU burn out. That means I don't have to worry about the summer heat making my computers lock up.
I've since bought this P4 2.4Ghz processor and I love it. My living room is much quieter noW.
sandeep
11-09-2002, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Kurylo
BTW, to the theme of the thread, P4 is way faster than P2, but P2 is way cheaper than P4.
p2 is also lot slower than a p4
BTW, to the theme of the thread, P4 is way faster than P2, but P2 is way cheaper than P4.
p2 is also lot slower than a p4
causticVapor
11-09-2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by sandeep
p2 is also lot slower than a p4
Already said :confused: :confused: :t :rolleyes:
p2 is also lot slower than a p4
Already said :confused: :confused: :t :rolleyes:
causticVapor
11-09-2002, 02:57 PM
P2
- MMX
- 66/100 GTL+ FSB
- P6 Microarchitecture
- 166?-450 MHz
- .25 micron process
- IPC - 8?
- Slot 1
- Based on Pentium MMX
- 512 and 256 KB of on-SECC L2 cache, 1/2 speed
- Memory interfaces - EDO33?, PC66, PC100, PC133
- Chipsets - 440BX, 440xx, VIA Apollo Pro series, etc.
P4
- MMX, SSE, SSE2
- 400/533/667 Quad-pumped FSB
- Netburst Microarchitecture (20-stage)
- 1.2-4.6+ GHz
- .18, .13 micron processes
- IPC - 6
- Socket 423 and 478
- Based on itself
- 256KB (Willy) and 512KB (*****) on-die L2 cache, full speed
- Memory interfaces - PC133, DDR200-533, PC800-1200
- Chipsets - 845's, 850's, VIA P4X series, SiS 640 series, etc.
- MMX
- 66/100 GTL+ FSB
- P6 Microarchitecture
- 166?-450 MHz
- .25 micron process
- IPC - 8?
- Slot 1
- Based on Pentium MMX
- 512 and 256 KB of on-SECC L2 cache, 1/2 speed
- Memory interfaces - EDO33?, PC66, PC100, PC133
- Chipsets - 440BX, 440xx, VIA Apollo Pro series, etc.
P4
- MMX, SSE, SSE2
- 400/533/667 Quad-pumped FSB
- Netburst Microarchitecture (20-stage)
- 1.2-4.6+ GHz
- .18, .13 micron processes
- IPC - 6
- Socket 423 and 478
- Based on itself
- 256KB (Willy) and 512KB (*****) on-die L2 cache, full speed
- Memory interfaces - PC133, DDR200-533, PC800-1200
- Chipsets - 845's, 850's, VIA P4X series, SiS 640 series, etc.
causticVapor
11-09-2002, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by sandeep
I have said this many times before. Here we go again ( read on my long story)
......
I've since bought this P4 2.4Ghz processor and I love it. My living room is much quieter noW.
And it's AMD's fault that you broke two CPUs by not being careful with the HSF?
BTW willy got pretty hot too....
Really, with a good copper HSF, you don't need a really loud fan.. a 2500 RPM 80mm one works wonders on a 2600+... which isn't really much cooler than the 1.4GHz tbird...
I have said this many times before. Here we go again ( read on my long story)
......
I've since bought this P4 2.4Ghz processor and I love it. My living room is much quieter noW.
And it's AMD's fault that you broke two CPUs by not being careful with the HSF?
BTW willy got pretty hot too....
Really, with a good copper HSF, you don't need a really loud fan.. a 2500 RPM 80mm one works wonders on a 2600+... which isn't really much cooler than the 1.4GHz tbird...
causticVapor
11-09-2002, 03:12 PM
then using a pen to lift the 'doohicky' up and over its hook.
eh? :confused:
Flathead screwdrivers work better...
eh? :confused:
Flathead screwdrivers work better...
NDD
11-09-2002, 10:07 PM
Please stick to "Pentium 2 vs. Pentium 4" issues, you all and Kurylo (we don't fight wars here) :mad: :)
$1500-P4 gamer
11-10-2002, 12:28 AM
"BTW willy got pretty hot too...."
LIE, outright LIE. I got one so I know. I have a XP 1600+ also and I will tell ya the willy is quit cool indeed! Also the willy does come in 423 AND 478 I have the 478 of course, thats another misconception about the williamette's! And yes guys, leave it be already! I mean Intel if ya want cool and quiet.....AMD if you want to save $ and dont mind noise plus are willing to take the extra time to install it etc. Its a give and take, if one cpu was truely the best all around the other co. simply would NOT exist. Isnt that proof enuff? Fast is fast, mhz per mhz means nothing to me. Why if it were labled a 200mhz cpu and was really a 2gig would that make it better than the competitions 2gig cause it was rated lower. NOPE, its how it works performance wise not the #'s that matter. And you guys say about the mhz hype. What do you think this AMD per mhz outperforms Intel **** is. MHZ HYPE. Chill people.
;) :t
LIE, outright LIE. I got one so I know. I have a XP 1600+ also and I will tell ya the willy is quit cool indeed! Also the willy does come in 423 AND 478 I have the 478 of course, thats another misconception about the williamette's! And yes guys, leave it be already! I mean Intel if ya want cool and quiet.....AMD if you want to save $ and dont mind noise plus are willing to take the extra time to install it etc. Its a give and take, if one cpu was truely the best all around the other co. simply would NOT exist. Isnt that proof enuff? Fast is fast, mhz per mhz means nothing to me. Why if it were labled a 200mhz cpu and was really a 2gig would that make it better than the competitions 2gig cause it was rated lower. NOPE, its how it works performance wise not the #'s that matter. And you guys say about the mhz hype. What do you think this AMD per mhz outperforms Intel **** is. MHZ HYPE. Chill people.
;) :t
unreal_outlaw
11-10-2002, 02:15 AM
Get Sandra and you can compair a p2 to a p4
sandeep
11-10-2002, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by causticVapor
And it's AMD's fault that you broke two CPUs by not being careful with the HSF?
BTW willy got pretty hot too....
Really, with a good copper HSF, you don't need a really loud fan.. a 2500 RPM 80mm one works wonders on a 2600+... which isn't really much cooler than the 1.4GHz tbird...
In your Dreams. The willy never gets as hot as a XP. I have the 1.9. It runs just fine with the heatsink and fan I got.
I dont know about that but I always stick to the Retail fan and heatsink that comes along the the chips and they always run so **** hot. No 2500 rpm fan is enough to cool AMD or even intel.
Intel fans runs at the default speed of 3000 rpm. and slowly goes up as the temprature goes up.
Amd will need much faster fans and better heastsinks to get proper cooling.
Dude, dont tell me that AMD does not care about MHZ. The main reason they shifted to the so called PR rating was because they could not stick to mhz power.
Note: I am not saying that AMD is bad or anything I just prefer intel over AMD for many reasons.
And it's AMD's fault that you broke two CPUs by not being careful with the HSF?
BTW willy got pretty hot too....
Really, with a good copper HSF, you don't need a really loud fan.. a 2500 RPM 80mm one works wonders on a 2600+... which isn't really much cooler than the 1.4GHz tbird...
In your Dreams. The willy never gets as hot as a XP. I have the 1.9. It runs just fine with the heatsink and fan I got.
I dont know about that but I always stick to the Retail fan and heatsink that comes along the the chips and they always run so **** hot. No 2500 rpm fan is enough to cool AMD or even intel.
Intel fans runs at the default speed of 3000 rpm. and slowly goes up as the temprature goes up.
Amd will need much faster fans and better heastsinks to get proper cooling.
Dude, dont tell me that AMD does not care about MHZ. The main reason they shifted to the so called PR rating was because they could not stick to mhz power.
Note: I am not saying that AMD is bad or anything I just prefer intel over AMD for many reasons.
sandeep
11-10-2002, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by unreal_outlaw
Get Sandra and you can compair a p2 to a p4
That can be used only for performance benchmark. He wanted to know the physical differences.
Get Sandra and you can compair a p2 to a p4
That can be used only for performance benchmark. He wanted to know the physical differences.
NDD
11-10-2002, 05:28 PM
Is he ? I think he's already left by now. You scared him :(
causticVapor
11-10-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by sandeep
In your Dreams. The willy never gets as hot as a XP. I have the 1.9. It runs just fine with the heatsink and fan I got.
...
Dude, dont tell me that AMD does not care about MHZ. The main reason they shifted to the so called PR rating was because they could not stick to mhz power.
Note: I am not saying that AMD is bad or anything I just prefer intel over AMD for many reasons.
1) I've been able to use the "arctic cooling" HSF, which consists of 1.5 stock Palomino heatsinks put together with a funnel for an 80mm fan. The 80mm fan runs at 2500 RPM, and an XP 2400+ at 2600+ (2.13) never gets hotter than 52 deg C; This is after extensive benching. No stability problems whatsoever and the chip is not emitting an extraordinary amount of heat either. On a palomino, which is supposed to be hotter, temperatures average 42 deg C.
2) How can you run a .18 micron CPU at 2.0GHz and not expect heat? The 2 GHz Willy dissipates nearly as much heat as the T-bird 1.4. The CPU throttles itself so as to (attempt) to not exceed 50 deg C; performance is lost in the process. IMO that is an ill excuse for inadequate cooling. How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon.
IMO the switch to .13 micron was not only transitional, it was NEEDED to save face.
3) One can say the opposing CPUs are better or worse, but they come in equal. Everybody in here has said it 1M times:
a) AMD's CPUs can execute more IPC, yet pipelines are more shallow and sensitive to overclocking. AMD also sells their CPUs for less.
b) Intel's CPUs are 33% less efficient, yet can be scaled enormously, even with the added transistors of 512KB L2 cache. They give a "high-quality" feel, and also cost a pretty penny.
4) ND, I have added my P2 vs P4 part. I was simply clarifying the differences that... certain members... seem to enjoy capitalizing on.
In your Dreams. The willy never gets as hot as a XP. I have the 1.9. It runs just fine with the heatsink and fan I got.
...
Dude, dont tell me that AMD does not care about MHZ. The main reason they shifted to the so called PR rating was because they could not stick to mhz power.
Note: I am not saying that AMD is bad or anything I just prefer intel over AMD for many reasons.
1) I've been able to use the "arctic cooling" HSF, which consists of 1.5 stock Palomino heatsinks put together with a funnel for an 80mm fan. The 80mm fan runs at 2500 RPM, and an XP 2400+ at 2600+ (2.13) never gets hotter than 52 deg C; This is after extensive benching. No stability problems whatsoever and the chip is not emitting an extraordinary amount of heat either. On a palomino, which is supposed to be hotter, temperatures average 42 deg C.
2) How can you run a .18 micron CPU at 2.0GHz and not expect heat? The 2 GHz Willy dissipates nearly as much heat as the T-bird 1.4. The CPU throttles itself so as to (attempt) to not exceed 50 deg C; performance is lost in the process. IMO that is an ill excuse for inadequate cooling. How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon.
IMO the switch to .13 micron was not only transitional, it was NEEDED to save face.
3) One can say the opposing CPUs are better or worse, but they come in equal. Everybody in here has said it 1M times:
a) AMD's CPUs can execute more IPC, yet pipelines are more shallow and sensitive to overclocking. AMD also sells their CPUs for less.
b) Intel's CPUs are 33% less efficient, yet can be scaled enormously, even with the added transistors of 512KB L2 cache. They give a "high-quality" feel, and also cost a pretty penny.
4) ND, I have added my P2 vs P4 part. I was simply clarifying the differences that... certain members... seem to enjoy capitalizing on.
$1500-P4 gamer
11-10-2002, 07:25 PM
"2) How can you run a .18 micron CPU at 2.0GHz and not expect heat? The 2 GHz Willy dissipates nearly as much heat as the T-bird 1.4. The CPU throttles itself so as to (attempt) to not exceed 50 deg C; performance is lost in the process. IMO that is an ill excuse for inadequate cooling. How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon."
Easy it is called a 20stage pipeline vs. a 10 satge one. read up on it you'll see. This is why a P4 can triple out oclock a AMD anything or a P3 anything! :eek:
Requote
"How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon."
Boy, you keep digging that hole deeper and deeper dont ya! Another fan fudded LIE. Cpu throttleing is OFF by default and must be ENABLED. On my asus that is done through the temp mon program you are running and same with other mobo's. I've never had mine on at all so its running full tilt constantly and still is WAY under the XP 1600+ temp on other system with a DELTA fan and a HUGE HSF unit. My P4 is the carappy stock one. Yet the XP 1600+ idle temp is just a smidge lower than my P4 full load 1.5gig at 1.65 always. Explain that eh! Cpu auto throttleing DOESNT limit the cpu cpeed untill the predetermended speed is reached inwhich YOU set. So if it is prematurly down clocking ITS YOUR FAULT.
:rolleyes:
Easy it is called a 20stage pipeline vs. a 10 satge one. read up on it you'll see. This is why a P4 can triple out oclock a AMD anything or a P3 anything! :eek:
Requote
"How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon."
Boy, you keep digging that hole deeper and deeper dont ya! Another fan fudded LIE. Cpu throttleing is OFF by default and must be ENABLED. On my asus that is done through the temp mon program you are running and same with other mobo's. I've never had mine on at all so its running full tilt constantly and still is WAY under the XP 1600+ temp on other system with a DELTA fan and a HUGE HSF unit. My P4 is the carappy stock one. Yet the XP 1600+ idle temp is just a smidge lower than my P4 full load 1.5gig at 1.65 always. Explain that eh! Cpu auto throttleing DOESNT limit the cpu cpeed untill the predetermended speed is reached inwhich YOU set. So if it is prematurly down clocking ITS YOUR FAULT.
:rolleyes:
causticVapor
11-10-2002, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by $1500-P4 gamer
Easy it is called a 20stage pipeline vs. a 10 satge one. read up on it you'll see. This is why a P4 can triple out oclock a AMD anything or a P3 anything! :eek:
This was only designed for clock speed, and not architectural efficiency. If intel really did not want to screw the customer, they would have launched the P4 with a .13 micron process at 2.2 GHz and sold it at the price a 1.5 is now. Then perhaps there would be few AMD dissenters. A 20-stage pipeline is great, yes, but one must keep in mind the difficulties associated with keeping it saturated. You know how well an AMD CPU would perform if it could be paired with RDRAM or if VIA produced chipsets of speed?
Requote
"How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon."
Boy, you keep digging that hole deeper and deeper dont ya! Another fan fudded LIE. Cpu throttleing is OFF by default and must be ENABLED. On my asus that is done through the temp mon program you are running and same with other mobo's. I've never had mine on at all so its running full tilt constantly and still is WAY under the XP 1600+ temp on other system with a DELTA fan and a HUGE HSF unit. My P4 is the carappy stock one. Yet the XP 1600+ idle temp is just a smidge lower than my P4 full load 1.5gig at 1.65 always. Explain that eh! Cpu auto throttleing DOESNT limit the cpu cpeed untill the predetermended speed is reached inwhich YOU set. So if it is prematurly down clocking ITS YOUR FAULT.
:rolleyes:
Yes, you can override the throttling, but that does not mean that it will simply burn up on its own. The die starts throttling at 90 C by default, which is way too high IMO. And all of this talk about throttling being "disabled" by default is bunk. On performance-oriented mobos, maybe, but on lesser ones it probably has a preset that cannot be changed.
And I will still reiterate that I have an XP 2400+ @ 2600+ with an HSF and 2500RPM 80mm fan!! :rolleyes:
Did I ever say the intel architecture was ****? No. Sure it can be pushed more; it is just interesting that the 20-stage pipeline sometimes backfires.
IF only there were chipset makers that could get it right for AMD...
What's your next argument going to be? That a northwood celery 2.0 can be brought to 2.66 and even though it is beaten by a P4 2.2 it is a good buy?
And it's a well known fact that intel's CPUs are running hotter at higher frequencies, combined with the recent voltage up from 1.5 to 1.525 volts. The iron wall will soon be hit.
AMD's CPUs can get up to 2.8 GHz with water/pelt cooling as well, and if only the FSB could be increased then it would beat the "P4 3600." Personally, I think intel would be in big trouble if AMD had:
) Raised the FSB to 400 MHz (200*2)
) Released hammer earlier
) Added a few more copper layers to the semiconductor.
AMD would be in big SH** if intel:
) raised the FSB to 667 earlier
) added a few copper layers
) launched the P4 3.6 EARLIER!
Even though intel has been relaxing while AMD has been freaking out since mid-year, one could become too complacent. If this complacency continiues, then my concerns could come true and yet another reversal could oocur next year (remember the PIII?)
Again, this is impartial, not fan-driven drivel.
Easy it is called a 20stage pipeline vs. a 10 satge one. read up on it you'll see. This is why a P4 can triple out oclock a AMD anything or a P3 anything! :eek:
This was only designed for clock speed, and not architectural efficiency. If intel really did not want to screw the customer, they would have launched the P4 with a .13 micron process at 2.2 GHz and sold it at the price a 1.5 is now. Then perhaps there would be few AMD dissenters. A 20-stage pipeline is great, yes, but one must keep in mind the difficulties associated with keeping it saturated. You know how well an AMD CPU would perform if it could be paired with RDRAM or if VIA produced chipsets of speed?
Requote
"How can one claim that the CPU is cooler when in actuality it is running at 70% of its advertised speed? If one wants to avoid the throttling, they have to get a larger HSF and the system will be as loud as the "hotter" athlon."
Boy, you keep digging that hole deeper and deeper dont ya! Another fan fudded LIE. Cpu throttleing is OFF by default and must be ENABLED. On my asus that is done through the temp mon program you are running and same with other mobo's. I've never had mine on at all so its running full tilt constantly and still is WAY under the XP 1600+ temp on other system with a DELTA fan and a HUGE HSF unit. My P4 is the carappy stock one. Yet the XP 1600+ idle temp is just a smidge lower than my P4 full load 1.5gig at 1.65 always. Explain that eh! Cpu auto throttleing DOESNT limit the cpu cpeed untill the predetermended speed is reached inwhich YOU set. So if it is prematurly down clocking ITS YOUR FAULT.
:rolleyes:
Yes, you can override the throttling, but that does not mean that it will simply burn up on its own. The die starts throttling at 90 C by default, which is way too high IMO. And all of this talk about throttling being "disabled" by default is bunk. On performance-oriented mobos, maybe, but on lesser ones it probably has a preset that cannot be changed.
And I will still reiterate that I have an XP 2400+ @ 2600+ with an HSF and 2500RPM 80mm fan!! :rolleyes:
Did I ever say the intel architecture was ****? No. Sure it can be pushed more; it is just interesting that the 20-stage pipeline sometimes backfires.
IF only there were chipset makers that could get it right for AMD...
What's your next argument going to be? That a northwood celery 2.0 can be brought to 2.66 and even though it is beaten by a P4 2.2 it is a good buy?
And it's a well known fact that intel's CPUs are running hotter at higher frequencies, combined with the recent voltage up from 1.5 to 1.525 volts. The iron wall will soon be hit.
AMD's CPUs can get up to 2.8 GHz with water/pelt cooling as well, and if only the FSB could be increased then it would beat the "P4 3600." Personally, I think intel would be in big trouble if AMD had:
) Raised the FSB to 400 MHz (200*2)
) Released hammer earlier
) Added a few more copper layers to the semiconductor.
AMD would be in big SH** if intel:
) raised the FSB to 667 earlier
) added a few copper layers
) launched the P4 3.6 EARLIER!
Even though intel has been relaxing while AMD has been freaking out since mid-year, one could become too complacent. If this complacency continiues, then my concerns could come true and yet another reversal could oocur next year (remember the PIII?)
Again, this is impartial, not fan-driven drivel.
Plaster
11-10-2002, 09:42 PM
If the heat given off by the chip is the biggest factor then the VIA C3 is the best CPU EVAR!!! Not only that, but the P2 stomps the P4 using this train of thought. ;)
causticVapor
11-10-2002, 10:32 PM
Yes, the C3 can run 30+ hrs w/o an HSF, but it is all relative.
The C3 also performs like a p2, mind you.
The C3 also performs like a p2, mind you.
NDD
11-11-2002, 12:00 AM
C3 Samuel2 performs like Celeron Coppermine128 200MHz slower :(
$1500-P4 gamer
11-11-2002, 01:54 AM
"What's your next argument going to be? That a northwood celery 2.0 can be brought to 2.66 and even though it is beaten by a P4 2.2 it is a good buy?"
God are you a lamier or what??? Those words would never come outta my mouth so dont even put them there. Next thing ya know, your gonna tell me you know 10x more than me about the P4....hehe. Been there since day one. I know the P4!
:rolleyes:
"Yes, you can override the throttling, but that does not mean that it will simply burn up on its own. The die starts throttling at 90 C by default, which is way too high IMO. And all of this talk about throttling being "disabled" by default is bunk. On performance-oriented mobos, maybe, but on lesser ones it probably has a preset that cannot be changed."
Um Asus P4te allows it to be off and is off by default. Also when the hubub on the net was P4 sucked cause it only ran half speed all the time INTEL said that it was off by default unless it hit crucial temp NOT ME! Besides funny benches are right on the mark even after full load temps isnt it, hmmmm!
as far as temp Im not the only one read this post here :
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122148
"
Pentium IV Overclock
Although i don't plan to keep my processor overclocked I've been playing with it and got it running at 2.7GHz, now this is a Pentium 2.4GHz and at that speed it was running at 45C, under load, well I didn't feel brave, at 2.4 it runs at 36C and under load at 40-42C. How high have you people go it, I run it with stock HSF and the thermal pad that it comes with."
Hmm again. It seems you are wrong. See even the high mhz P4's run cool dont you get it, you are the victem of fan fud wehter you know it or not! Cause every time show you your wrong you fling another fan based lie. Dont even tell me you like intel, its obvious your a amd fan through and through just by your untruthfull biased lies that I continually prove wrong.
"And it's a well known fact that intel's CPUs are running hotter at higher frequencies, combined with the recent voltage up from 1.5 to 1.525 volts. The iron wall will soon be hit."
Uh ya, we dont know this. this isnt true with all cpu's? Comeon now. Intel even said 5-8gig is the P4's limit then its p5 on out. Once again Intel is leding the way in mhz and other cpu manufacturers are gonna save a ton of $ by following there lead and not paying for the R&D as always. Funny though how you are wrong about the 2.4gig P4 temp sthough aint it....this is why Intel costs so much. Leaching wanna be manufacturers that borrow uhmm ideas. I like amd and intel, I'm gonna tell ya right now, you are AMD biased in every staitment you make. This is one of those discusions where I might aswell be talking to the wall so Im outta here. Peace.
:p
God are you a lamier or what??? Those words would never come outta my mouth so dont even put them there. Next thing ya know, your gonna tell me you know 10x more than me about the P4....hehe. Been there since day one. I know the P4!
:rolleyes:
"Yes, you can override the throttling, but that does not mean that it will simply burn up on its own. The die starts throttling at 90 C by default, which is way too high IMO. And all of this talk about throttling being "disabled" by default is bunk. On performance-oriented mobos, maybe, but on lesser ones it probably has a preset that cannot be changed."
Um Asus P4te allows it to be off and is off by default. Also when the hubub on the net was P4 sucked cause it only ran half speed all the time INTEL said that it was off by default unless it hit crucial temp NOT ME! Besides funny benches are right on the mark even after full load temps isnt it, hmmmm!
as far as temp Im not the only one read this post here :
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122148
"
Pentium IV Overclock
Although i don't plan to keep my processor overclocked I've been playing with it and got it running at 2.7GHz, now this is a Pentium 2.4GHz and at that speed it was running at 45C, under load, well I didn't feel brave, at 2.4 it runs at 36C and under load at 40-42C. How high have you people go it, I run it with stock HSF and the thermal pad that it comes with."
Hmm again. It seems you are wrong. See even the high mhz P4's run cool dont you get it, you are the victem of fan fud wehter you know it or not! Cause every time show you your wrong you fling another fan based lie. Dont even tell me you like intel, its obvious your a amd fan through and through just by your untruthfull biased lies that I continually prove wrong.
"And it's a well known fact that intel's CPUs are running hotter at higher frequencies, combined with the recent voltage up from 1.5 to 1.525 volts. The iron wall will soon be hit."
Uh ya, we dont know this. this isnt true with all cpu's? Comeon now. Intel even said 5-8gig is the P4's limit then its p5 on out. Once again Intel is leding the way in mhz and other cpu manufacturers are gonna save a ton of $ by following there lead and not paying for the R&D as always. Funny though how you are wrong about the 2.4gig P4 temp sthough aint it....this is why Intel costs so much. Leaching wanna be manufacturers that borrow uhmm ideas. I like amd and intel, I'm gonna tell ya right now, you are AMD biased in every staitment you make. This is one of those discusions where I might aswell be talking to the wall so Im outta here. Peace.
:p
sandeep
11-11-2002, 07:46 AM
[Originally posted by causticVapor
a) AMD's CPUs can execute more IPC, yet pipelines are more shallow and sensitive to overclocking. AMD also sells their CPUs for less.
b) Intel's CPUs are 33% less efficient, yet can be scaled enormously, even with the added transistors of 512KB L2 cache. They give a "high-quality" feel, and also cost a pretty penny.
.
Ok more IPC.
Amd has taken or you might say given out every last mhz posiable out of their chips. That is one of the reasons they run so HOT. All AMD has done is overclocked the chips to run at very high and unstable tempratures.
You say AMd is cheaper?
Think again see the latest prices from pricewatch.com
p42.4 $ 180
xp2400 $180 running at 1.93
p4 2.6 $287
Xp2600 $290 running at 2.13
Look at the benchmarks.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020821/athlonxp-13.html
I am just getting warmed up
:p
a) AMD's CPUs can execute more IPC, yet pipelines are more shallow and sensitive to overclocking. AMD also sells their CPUs for less.
b) Intel's CPUs are 33% less efficient, yet can be scaled enormously, even with the added transistors of 512KB L2 cache. They give a "high-quality" feel, and also cost a pretty penny.
.
Ok more IPC.
Amd has taken or you might say given out every last mhz posiable out of their chips. That is one of the reasons they run so HOT. All AMD has done is overclocked the chips to run at very high and unstable tempratures.
You say AMd is cheaper?
Think again see the latest prices from pricewatch.com
p42.4 $ 180
xp2400 $180 running at 1.93
p4 2.6 $287
Xp2600 $290 running at 2.13
Look at the benchmarks.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020821/athlonxp-13.html
I am just getting warmed up
:p
causticVapor
11-11-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by $1500-P4 gamer
"What's your next argument going to be? That a northwood celery 2.0 can be brought to 2.66 and even though it is beaten by a P4 2.2 it is a good buy?"
God are you a lamier or what??? Those words would never come outta my mouth so dont even put them there. Next thing ya know, your gonna tell me you know 10x more than me about the P4....hehe. Been there since day one. I know the P4!
:rolleyes:
OK, OK... Based on your attacks, I would assume it, but leave be. I would never say I know more than 10x anyone... that's why I'm in here, not only to inform, but also to learn... When did I say that you knew nothing about intel?? :rolleyes:
Um Asus P4te allows it to be off and is off by default. Also when the hubub on the net was P4 sucked cause it only ran half speed all the time INTEL said that it was off by default unless it hit crucial temp NOT ME! Besides funny benches are right on the mark even after full load temps isnt it, hmmmm!
Note the words "performance-oriented" mobos. Full load temps of... 45C? Why is it that some have 45C and other 55C with the same frequency and stepping? Of course AMD's CPUs are hotter than intel's. The Pentium III would also be pretty hot if intel kept pushing it. That's why AMD is in such big trouble right now, with hammer delays bringing the corporation lower and lower. Remember the 1.13GHz coppermine? Intel, the company that was supposed to be on top, was shamed with an unstable processor. Really, I think that 1.73GHz for a 10-stage CPU is pretty good.
Intel had been working on willamette since 1995, yet everyone thought they had to "rush" the P4. I think intel just waits to release CPUs on the market... and once AMD releases a faster CPU, they just say, "hey, OK, let's release the next one." Boom.
AMD will never be on top until it has the cash, influence, reputation and resources that intel has. AMD started out as a copycat of intel.. but then broke away with their K5 series CPUs..
the K6 and athlon were remarkable successes.
AMD has also had moral blunders.. irongate.... but then again it all comes down to who makes what decisions in the marketplace.
Hmm again. It seems you are wrong. See even the high mhz P4's run cool dont you get it, you are the victem of fan fud wehter you know it or not! Cause every time show you your wrong you fling another fan based lie. Dont even tell me you like intel, its obvious your a amd fan through and through just by your untruthfull biased lies that I continually prove wrong.
What untruthful, biased lies?? I was talking about willy, not northwood. Where did northwood come into this game? Sure willy is cooler, note the word ALMOST.. :rolleyes: I've read enough to not be considered a fanboy... where did I bring AMD fud into this? The die temperature of a willy P4 2.0 gets "almost as high as that of the Thunderbird 1.4"... you know not to read the BIOS! That is why there was a shrink in the first place! Of course the P4 has more headroom, that is what "P4" is all about!
The question is, how high can it get before being outcompeted by AMD? Prescott is planned to be a .09-micron die shrink of northwood, yet still IA-32. If AMD has it right with hammer, then it will be a close fight. AMD's focus has been on preservation... their K6 was a CISC-RISC composite, the athlon taking things from the alpha, and hammer being able to execute x86 instructions with 64-bits of address space.
How long did 423 survive? A few months? Thank god for companies like upgradeware. One thing I despise about intel is their frequent platform changes. How long has AMD stuck to socket 462? OK, it's obsolote compared to socket 478, but does allow users a more solid upgrade path.
"And it's a well known fact that intel's CPUs are running hotter at higher frequencies, combined with the recent voltage up from 1.5 to 1.525 volts. The iron wall will soon be hit."
Uh ya, we dont know this. this isnt true with all cpu's? Comeon now. Intel even said 5-8gig is the P4's limit then its p5 on out. Once again Intel is leding the way in mhz and other cpu manufacturers are gonna save a ton of $ by following there lead and not paying for the R&D as always. Funny though how you are wrong about the 2.4gig P4 temp sthough aint it....this is why Intel costs so much. Leaching wanna be manufacturers that borrow uhmm ideas. I like amd and intel, I'm gonna tell ya right now, you are AMD biased in every staitment you make. This is one of those discusions where I might aswell be talking to the wall so Im outta here. Peace.
:p
Boy, you're really pi$$ed off arent you sir? Intel has a lot of cash to throw at R&D. As I said, hammer will be a close race. Certainly 4-8? GHz or so is the limit of the P4, however.... even at 4 the heat is unbearable... despite the 20-stage pipeline, which equals 1.8 times higher possible frequency. Some 2.4 P4s run cool, while other's don't. It's just like what bushmaster was talking about with P4s having convex surfaces. Look at this logically. It will all be a race, and whoever wins will be crowned. Last year it was AMD, this year intel. Next year the trend will either reverse, or AMD will die. IF not next year, then two or three...
But if you think you're talking to a wall, I think I'm talking to more of one. Examine your posts. Whose are more fiery and attacking?
And wasn't this a P2 vs P4 thread in the first place???
"What's your next argument going to be? That a northwood celery 2.0 can be brought to 2.66 and even though it is beaten by a P4 2.2 it is a good buy?"
God are you a lamier or what??? Those words would never come outta my mouth so dont even put them there. Next thing ya know, your gonna tell me you know 10x more than me about the P4....hehe. Been there since day one. I know the P4!
:rolleyes:
OK, OK... Based on your attacks, I would assume it, but leave be. I would never say I know more than 10x anyone... that's why I'm in here, not only to inform, but also to learn... When did I say that you knew nothing about intel?? :rolleyes:
Um Asus P4te allows it to be off and is off by default. Also when the hubub on the net was P4 sucked cause it only ran half speed all the time INTEL said that it was off by default unless it hit crucial temp NOT ME! Besides funny benches are right on the mark even after full load temps isnt it, hmmmm!
Note the words "performance-oriented" mobos. Full load temps of... 45C? Why is it that some have 45C and other 55C with the same frequency and stepping? Of course AMD's CPUs are hotter than intel's. The Pentium III would also be pretty hot if intel kept pushing it. That's why AMD is in such big trouble right now, with hammer delays bringing the corporation lower and lower. Remember the 1.13GHz coppermine? Intel, the company that was supposed to be on top, was shamed with an unstable processor. Really, I think that 1.73GHz for a 10-stage CPU is pretty good.
Intel had been working on willamette since 1995, yet everyone thought they had to "rush" the P4. I think intel just waits to release CPUs on the market... and once AMD releases a faster CPU, they just say, "hey, OK, let's release the next one." Boom.
AMD will never be on top until it has the cash, influence, reputation and resources that intel has. AMD started out as a copycat of intel.. but then broke away with their K5 series CPUs..
the K6 and athlon were remarkable successes.
AMD has also had moral blunders.. irongate.... but then again it all comes down to who makes what decisions in the marketplace.
Hmm again. It seems you are wrong. See even the high mhz P4's run cool dont you get it, you are the victem of fan fud wehter you know it or not! Cause every time show you your wrong you fling another fan based lie. Dont even tell me you like intel, its obvious your a amd fan through and through just by your untruthfull biased lies that I continually prove wrong.
What untruthful, biased lies?? I was talking about willy, not northwood. Where did northwood come into this game? Sure willy is cooler, note the word ALMOST.. :rolleyes: I've read enough to not be considered a fanboy... where did I bring AMD fud into this? The die temperature of a willy P4 2.0 gets "almost as high as that of the Thunderbird 1.4"... you know not to read the BIOS! That is why there was a shrink in the first place! Of course the P4 has more headroom, that is what "P4" is all about!
The question is, how high can it get before being outcompeted by AMD? Prescott is planned to be a .09-micron die shrink of northwood, yet still IA-32. If AMD has it right with hammer, then it will be a close fight. AMD's focus has been on preservation... their K6 was a CISC-RISC composite, the athlon taking things from the alpha, and hammer being able to execute x86 instructions with 64-bits of address space.
How long did 423 survive? A few months? Thank god for companies like upgradeware. One thing I despise about intel is their frequent platform changes. How long has AMD stuck to socket 462? OK, it's obsolote compared to socket 478, but does allow users a more solid upgrade path.
"And it's a well known fact that intel's CPUs are running hotter at higher frequencies, combined with the recent voltage up from 1.5 to 1.525 volts. The iron wall will soon be hit."
Uh ya, we dont know this. this isnt true with all cpu's? Comeon now. Intel even said 5-8gig is the P4's limit then its p5 on out. Once again Intel is leding the way in mhz and other cpu manufacturers are gonna save a ton of $ by following there lead and not paying for the R&D as always. Funny though how you are wrong about the 2.4gig P4 temp sthough aint it....this is why Intel costs so much. Leaching wanna be manufacturers that borrow uhmm ideas. I like amd and intel, I'm gonna tell ya right now, you are AMD biased in every staitment you make. This is one of those discusions where I might aswell be talking to the wall so Im outta here. Peace.
:p
Boy, you're really pi$$ed off arent you sir? Intel has a lot of cash to throw at R&D. As I said, hammer will be a close race. Certainly 4-8? GHz or so is the limit of the P4, however.... even at 4 the heat is unbearable... despite the 20-stage pipeline, which equals 1.8 times higher possible frequency. Some 2.4 P4s run cool, while other's don't. It's just like what bushmaster was talking about with P4s having convex surfaces. Look at this logically. It will all be a race, and whoever wins will be crowned. Last year it was AMD, this year intel. Next year the trend will either reverse, or AMD will die. IF not next year, then two or three...
But if you think you're talking to a wall, I think I'm talking to more of one. Examine your posts. Whose are more fiery and attacking?
And wasn't this a P2 vs P4 thread in the first place???
causticVapor
11-11-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by sandeep
[
Ok more IPC.
Amd has taken or you might say given out every last mhz posiable out of their chips. That is one of the reasons they run so HOT. All AMD has done is overclocked the chips to run at very high and unstable tempratures.
You say AMd is cheaper?
Think again see the latest prices from pricewatch.com
p42.4 $ 180
xp2400 $180 running at 1.93
p4 2.6 $287
Xp2600 $290 running at 2.13
Look at the benchmarks.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020821/athlonxp-13.html
I am just getting warmed up
:p
It's funny that you look at a benchmark that has always favored the P4. High-end will always cost more, but AMD's midrange CPUs are good in price. The XP 1800+ is... $68? P4 1.5.. $126??
"higher quality" is all subjective...
[
Ok more IPC.
Amd has taken or you might say given out every last mhz posiable out of their chips. That is one of the reasons they run so HOT. All AMD has done is overclocked the chips to run at very high and unstable tempratures.
You say AMd is cheaper?
Think again see the latest prices from pricewatch.com
p42.4 $ 180
xp2400 $180 running at 1.93
p4 2.6 $287
Xp2600 $290 running at 2.13
Look at the benchmarks.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020821/athlonxp-13.html
I am just getting warmed up
:p
It's funny that you look at a benchmark that has always favored the P4. High-end will always cost more, but AMD's midrange CPUs are good in price. The XP 1800+ is... $68? P4 1.5.. $126??
"higher quality" is all subjective...
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