(difficult) new system choice (intel or amd)

[mushmula-boy]

hi
i'm new around here... the amount of information and advice in these forums is great, so i thought you guys might help me out.

OK, i need a new system mainly for hardcore audio & video editing (vhs to svcd; tv/satellite captures; dvd to divx/xvid etc; lame encoding; adobe premiere; maybe dvd authoring). i also use adobe photoshop and illustrator on a regular basis. not much gaming, but maybe some flight/space simulation games. i'm a newbie and haven't overclocked before, but am considering giving it a try.

so, i've been wondering the eternal question: intel or amd and i've come up with two roughly comparable cpu/mobo/memory setups:

intel p4-2.53(553) -- msi 845pe max2 fir -- pc2700 512 x2 (1 GB)

amd athlon xp-2400 -- msi kt4 ultra-fisr via kt-400 -- pc 2100 cl2 512 x2 (1 GB)

given my needs, which setup do you think will perform better? all suggestions/advice are welcome.

thanks!!

[Bigjakkstaffa]

If you can afford it a pentium 4 system with RAMBUS memory and a radeon 9700 128mb gfx card

If not id say get a high end athlon XP - wait for the KT400A motherboards and get PC2700 / PC3200 RAM

--Jakk:t

[tking]

Seeing as you're doing a lot of data crunching and that is the AMD's strong point (and it also happens to be cheaper), based on your requirements I'd say go AMD.

If you're a first time builder or have shakey fingers and a habit of breaking things, then I'd say go with the Intel simply because it's easier to install. AMDs can be finicky when you're putting them together.

[AllGamer]

I rather go for the AMD XP + 9700

:t

[Swordfish]

AMD KT333 ati 9700....packs in a lot of punch...oh yeah:D :D

[Paco103]

I agree, the only reason to spend the extra on P4 is if you're going to get VERY expensive RAMBUS RAM. I use an Athlon XP 1800 for doing basically what you do. It outperforms my P4 2.2Ghz in everything. (The P4 is a laptop though). Just make sure you get DDR ram - it's really a minimal price difference. Processing DVD's and other video especially use a lot of memory bandwidth. The Athlon is a more economical chip, but make sure you get a good heatsink for it. Especially when you're compressing a DVD for 6 hours, or at 100% CPU load 24/7 (I do distributed projects too) - the chip gets warm. As long as you don't skimp on the HSF, you'll be set to make all the movies/music you want!!

Also, if you want to do movies and music - I'd suggest investing in a decent sound card. You can go anywhere from $20 to $400, just depending on how good of one you want, but it makes a difference! I used to use a $40 Yamaha DX, now I use an SBLive! Platinum - and I'll never go back to onboard sound!

[tking]

Originally posted by Paco103
it makes a difference! I used to use a $40 Yamaha DX, now I use an SBLive! Platinum - and I'll never go back to onboard sound!

Does it really make a noticable difference? I end up going with onboard sound just so I can pour all my disposable income into my obscene fetish (VIDEO - 9700, slobber, slobber...:x )

Do you have to have a $300 speaker system to hear the difference or is it noticable on anything (like a good set of headphones)...

[rangeral]

Welcome to Sysopt!

Plus the scooby doo movie was done with amd machines so there shouldn't be any problems video editing and adobe where amd shines on benchmarking with premiere.

[lptech]

My recommendation for you is to get the GIGABYTE GA-8IHXP mobo with Kingston PC-1066 RIMMs and the Intel 2.53-GHz CPU since you sound like you're going to be doing alot of computing that requires plenty of memory bandwidth!

I'm only recommending the above since AMD has not yet released the Athlon XP+ 2800 CPUs or the new Opteron CPUs! The above configuration is the best mobo/CPU/memory combo for building a fast video-editing system! Otherwise, if speed is not of the essence for doing your video editing with, then the most current and fastest AMD Athlon XP CPU with the GIGABYTE GA-7VAXP and DDR-333 memory modules would be my second recommendation!

Whichever platform you decide to use (AMD or Intel), the above configurations should cover your needs at least for quite awhile! Good luck and post us on your progress when you start on this project!:)

[Beeblequix]

If you can afford it a pentium 4 system with RAMBUS memory and a radeon 9700 128mb gfx card

Sorry, Jack. I've got to disagree with you (and everyone else) about mushmula-boy getting the 9700. What's the point? He/she's not going to do the UT2003 & DoomIII 1st person shooter anytime soon, just a little flight sim. That can easily be handled with a Geforce 2 MX 400 or Geforce 4 MX 4xx. I mention these in particular because once you've gone dually (monitor) you'll never go back. And anything above these are supreme-overkill. It's easy to spend someone else's money, but when it's yours and you have more important obligations....well....

What's most important here is:
1) the ability to do audio/video editing
2) crunch numbers
3) stability (always)

You can't go wrong with either AMD or Intel for what you're going to do. So the CPU....:shrug:

If you're going for an AMD based system, consider the nForce chipset. I have to say how very impressed with it I am. As much as I loved my A7V266-E Via kt266-A chipset I'd have to say that this nforce board is more stable. Plus it has 5.1 dolby digital which you can stick in the ACR slot. The company who sold it to me claims it sounds better than my Live Platinum 5.1, but frankly I have a $40 Cyber Accoustic 3 piece speaker system and I won't ever care enough to go beyond it. I wouldn't advise getting a Via KT400 chipset. I know, I'm bracing myself for the flames which are imminent. Simply from what I've read over on http://www.anandtech.com it seems that the problems with this chipset are:

1) the lack of a DDR400 standard
2) lower performance than the Via KT333 chipset

Have they fixed these problems yet? Go read those articles about the KT400 motherboards and you'll see what I mean. The memory settings are all messed up on the KT400 boards.

You'll benefit on a P4 system if you get the Rambus memory, although for what you spend on the RDRAM you could get MORE DDR SDRAM and probably be better off anyway. That's up to you.

And IF it's within your means, you'd also benefit from a RAID 0 configuration. I miss my A7V266-E...:(

ßeeßle Qµix

[lptech]

The recommendation from Beeble Quix about the nForce mobo is also a good alternative but you'd have a limitation if you use the onboard video, where you would still have to have a separate AGP videocard in order to have more useable video memory (nForce only allows you to share 32MB max for your video)! But, yes, it is very fast as he mentioned! Just remember that your purchase should be exactly for your current and future needs! Keep us posted on whatever you decide on.:)

[tking]

Originally posted by Beeblequix
I wouldn't advise getting a Via KT400 chipset. I know, I'm bracing myself for the flames which are imminent. Simply from what I've read ...

Good reading. 2 out of the 5 boards I was considering were KT400's. Now I only have 3 to choose from. Life is made easier reading sysopt.

[kimike]

Go AMD...you can't loss and it will not disappoint.

Wait er out for the KT400a and all will be good (With a good heatsink)

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Your probably right about the gfx card beeblequix, just the statment:

hardcore audio & video editing

got me thinking my typical more is better

(teenage dreams of megolmania and a kick ***** compo taking over again :D)

And yup on the KT400A as i said in my original post, i'll reemphasise, STAY away, theyre out performaed by the 333's and are more expensive, hopeful;ly this will be rectified by the Kt400a, which will be sooner rater than later.. me hopes.. well - January latest.. pwease??

;)

--Jakk:t

[kimike]

I have had super luck with the 333's to I will "double agree" with
Bigjakkstaffa

[user0209]

You probably gonna leave your pc running day and night encoding stuffs, right?

Is the system next to your bed?

Can you stand the noise?

It's likely AMD will end up much noisier than p4. This reason alone will make you think twice. Be careful.

[mushmula-boy]

Thanks for the excellent advice, everyone!

I did some more reading and most trustworthy places advise against the kt-400 chip while the intel nForce2-ST gets pretty good reviews (this is the one w/o onboard video IIRC).

So, I think I shall stay away from KT-400; and my hunch has been to go with AMD. Well, of course I also am on a budget constraint, since I would like to get a nice 19" monitor as well since my old 17" is, well, pretty old; i850 and RAMBUS are definitely pricey! So I am thinking something along the lines of:

Athlon XP 2700+ - ASUS A7N8X - 2 sticks of 512MB 3200 DDR Crucial

From what I've managed to see online, the ASUS A7N8X promises to be quite a decent (and fast) mobo w/ 8X AGP and Athlon FSB 333 compatible which makes it upward compatible.

Do you think the above setup would be better suited to my needs than a P4 2.53 (533) - i845PE board - 2 x 512 2700 DDR?

Thanks a bunch again!

[Giblet Plus!]

Yes, in your $ range AMD is king. The 333 mhz fsb of the xp2700 will make it even better for the work you're doing (very bandwidth intensive)

For the video card, something like an ati all in wonder 8500 would serve you well. It has a lot of usefull things for vid editing, and it can still play modern games well.

[Paco103]

Originally posted by tking


Does it really make a noticable difference? I end up going with onboard sound just so I can pour all my disposable income into my obscene fetish (VIDEO - 9700, slobber, slobber...:x )

Do you have to have a $300 speaker system to hear the difference or is it noticable on anything (like a good set of headphones)...

The video card is a more important feature for most people. For me my eyes aren't as sensitive, I can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps, or 60hz and 72hz. . . but my mom's eyes ache at anything lower than 72 - so I know it's an issue for some people . For me the sound is more important. Onboard audio uses shared system CPU, and has has much lower quality sound (especially in MIDI type systems). I can tell the difference between my onboard and the $40 Yamaha with cheap speakers, and a slight improvement to the SBLive (not a big jump though). Currently I run my home system through an Aiwa 160 watt split-stereo surround Karaoke player - and the SBLive is definitely worth it there. For most people it won't matter that much, but I'd still suggest a $20 Soundblaster (or other brand) hardware card. For me I record from old records and 8 tracks too, and the DAC/ADC chips are better on a more expensive card obviously. I also love the front panel Live Drive:)

[tking]

Originally posted by Paco103
The video card is a more important feature for most people... I can tell the difference between my onboard and the $40 Yamaha with cheap speakers...

Thanks Paco,

My wife is a big audio nut. I got her a good set of yamaha speakers. Perhaps an audigy is in her future. If it impresses her, I might get one for myself.

[deadkenny]

I would go for the P4 system. The older RDRAM P4 boards don't have current features for the most part (USB 2.0, AGP 8X, SATA etc.) so I would not recommend that direction. The 845PE chipset s/b good. Some recent ASUS boards appear to have 'issues' (A7S333, P4S8X, P4PE) so I'm not sure I would go with the ASUS nForce2 board until after it has been thoroughly tested. If you can wait, Granite Bay should be out soon (dual memory channel DDR).

[mushmula-boy]

Yes, I have made the decision after much consideration...

I have ordered the Asus A7N8X Deluxe together with a Western Digital 1200JB, two sticks of PC3200 512Mb, ATI AIW 8500 DV and an Athlon XP 2400+ (for the time being). I'm also getting an Eizo T766, a sweet 19" monitor, which however is placing constraints on my budget (e.g. not getting a better CPU). I think the whole jumbo with a new CD-RW and DVD-R will come out to about $1600 (I am reusing an old case), not bad since I am after all living in Japan. The stuff should be here by the end of the week... Can't wait!!

[tking]

Originally posted by mushmula-boy
... not bad since I am after all living in Japan.

When I was living there I ended up going with a Gateway:eek: just because I gave up on ordering parts in kanji.:rolleyes: ... and the thought of having to RMA something made my head spin.

You've got yourself a powerhouse, good luck with it...

[jmichna]

Originally posted by mushmula-boy
...amd athlon xp-2400 -- msi kt4 ultra-fisr via kt-400 -- pc 2100 cl2 512 x2 (1 GB)....PC2100 DDR RAM for a KT400 mobo (or even a KT333 mobo) is underkill. Your proposed AMD-based motherboard has the capability to run the ram on a 166mHz bus asynchronous with a cpu that is running on a 133mHz fsb. If you decide to go this route, at a minumum you should be running quality DDR2700 RAM (rated for 166mHz bus speed). Actually, you may even want to spend a few more bucks and go with DDR3200 C2 RAM (I think someone else also mentioned this ram in one of the above replies).
jmichna

[omega31]

Originally posted by mushmula-boy
Yes, I have made the decision after much consideration...

I have ordered the Asus A7N8X Deluxe together with a Western Digital 1200JB, two sticks of PC3200 512Mb, ATI AIW 8500 DV and an Athlon XP 2400+ (for the time being). I'm also getting an Eizo T766, a sweet 19" monitor, which however is placing constraints on my budget (e.g. not getting a better CPU). I think the whole jumbo with a new CD-RW and DVD-R will come out to about $1600 (I am reusing an old case), not bad since I am after all living in Japan. The stuff should be here by the end of the week... Can't wait!!

Quite nice. I was going to get the A7N8X (nforce2 chipset!) as well, but they took too long to come out. I got bored and got a ECS K7S5A with SiS745 chipset. Ah, well, my system runs without a hitch, so I'll probably wait for Hammer, now.

[Beeblequix]

lptech

I just wanted to clarify what you've mentioned regarding the Nforce. You advised about being limited by the onboard video. My nforce based Asus board is based on the 415D chipset, the video-less one. This board has no onboard video. Just stating this to show that they make boards without that limiting factor, but still has the 'good stuff' like the twin bank architecture.

Frankly the twin bank memory structure IS OVERKILL since the cpu cannot possibly utilize it all (fsb on my 2200+ is 266 supporting 2.1 GB/sec; the memory supplies 4.2GB/sec). A newer 166*2 333fsb still only wants 2.8GB/sec, so we're back to overkill on bandwidth. jmichna mentioned the capability of running asynchronously with the memory running 166*2. Well, my mobo also can run asynchronously, but that, once again, is supremo-overkill.

Don't suppose anyone can post a link which tackles this question: how much better performance can an Nforce based mobo owner expect while
1) running two dimms in the twin-bank architecture at stock speeds
2) the above, but asynchronous bus speeds
3) one bank of memory running 166*2

To those who understand the nforce, the extra bandwidth is achieved by using the second DIMM slot. Otherwise when running one stick of memory you're really just trying to keep up with the VIA performance powerhouses.

ß.Qµix