Really a new bios chip ? or is it Memorex

[surrealchereal]

Ok I'm sure my grasp of this subject is ridiculous and infantile and that I am so off base, you'll want to yell at me... and tell me to read up.. but please be nice http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif I generally can't grasp this kind of stuff by reading. I have to do it or conceptualize it before I can read and understand it. Which means by the time I can read it and understand it I usually don't need to because I already do. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif ... Please don't yell at me for being dense. I'm trying to get a picture here http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif. I'm finally bringing this up because it's still bugging me. I mean doesn't the bios just recognize the equipment based on parameters it knows? An upgrade (flashing the bios) is just to bring it up to date with new equip, or refine the equip descriptions and functions to the chip. (am I warm?) They can't have a proprietary chip for every edition of mother board can they? Isn't a bios chip almost like a Chevy 357 engine? Works in a truck, a car just needs to be suited to the cars motor mounts transmission, drive shaft, GVW and what ever else makes em go? Can’t a bios chip be dropped into any particular mobo that has the equipment and build that the bios will compliment and make em go? .... If this is not so, why do the chips have all these archaic dates, they seem to be 1 to 3 or more years older than the board manufacture, it cant take that long to get it from engineering specs to production can it?

Last question, this is even worse.. I ran into a web site, possibly searching for arctic silver info, or maybe fan info..I think the site pertained to cooling your mobo. The guy had a little article about booting a computer with a bad bios chip or bad flash job with a chip from another brand mobo, I didn’t read much but it thought he said the chips were, Award and AMI, and not even the same size. I bookmarked it to go back, and lost the info. Anyone else remember running across this? Or have info on this kind of thing?

Oh yeah It all goes back to the thing that brought me here in the middle of the night in October 2000, MY PC CHIPPS MOTHERBOARD!!!! It will never win!!! I will fix that board! fixx it before we die
MUWAHAHAHAHAH
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[NascarFool]

Your warm. First off, 357 is not a Chevy engine(350 is). LOL
Some bios chips are the same between different boards, the difference is in the flash. You can buy new bios chips that are flashed and ready to install. The bios holds the info for the motherboard about the PCI slots, parallel port, serial ports etc. Of course the info is for that brand of board too. This isn't the best explanation but I tried. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[elroy]

surrealchereal, slow down it's not that difficult. The bios dates seem old because there is a long time lapse between the time the board is engineered then manufactured, shipped to the US and the time it actually appears in your machine and the day comes when you want to fool with it. The bios chip may be the same but the info it holds is very different. Boards have different chipsets, bus speeds, multipliers, ram sockets, memory capacities, onboard video or sound, etc. I think the article you're referring to about swapping the bad bios out, the guy used a bios from an identical board. He removed the bad bios, installed the good one, booted the PC, then swapped the bios chips while it was running, then was able to re-flash the bad one. Do you still have a problem with your PC Chips board?

[G]

Hi surrealchereal,
I wrote this post reply for Turbo (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/013320.html) last night. It should answer some of your request. It is more of a bigger picture reply but I'm sure there is some information in here that you can use

Once I've read the excellent Bios Companion I hope to be able to help even more comprehensively but for now here's the best I can do.

Oh dear. Ideally, bios updates need only to be performed if the present bios has a defect, or there is something specific which you cannot do with the present bios that the new version can. With all bios updates it is essential that you gather and empower yourself with as much information as possible prior to flashing the bios. Bios mess ups are very common, and it is vital that all possible precautions are meet in order to eliminate the possible, in order that the almost improbable are only likely under exceptional circumstances. You will still need to do some fact-finding (pertaining to your motherboard) if your bios is to be resurrected.

As you know the Bios chip contains the code that starts up the computer, recognises the floppy and HDs, and then loads the operating system's 'bootstrap loader. So without a Bios it will be not be possible to Flash Bios the Bios chip, or at least without difficulty. However, after early Flash bios upgrades caused problems, when users messed up the Bios code, manufacturers started to build in some kind of Bios recovery procedure. Bios recovery depends on a special section of the Flash memory chip that cannot be reprogrammed easily - either it depends on a higher voltage or it needs the voltage applied to a separate pin. The first method, still used on all Intel made motherboard (as far as I know), is a jumper that, when moved from pins 1-2 (NM) to 2-3 (RC), switches the bios from 'normal' into 'recovery mode'. It then executes code that's normally located at the bottom of the Bios memory range. Nowadays, many modern bioses (including the common Award and Phoenix flashable bioses) have a similarly protected boot-block, but with code that's designed to run each time you boot up, checking that the bios code isn't corrupted. This system should try to load a new Bios image from floppy automatically if it detects a corrupted Bios if your compute beeps and tries to access the floppy drive when you turn it on, this code is still present and will allow you to flash the Bios. Even if it's silent, remove the video card and then try again, as some video cards are known to interfere with this code. It may also be the case that you may need to disable pipeline burst-mode cache on some motherboards. For Award Bioses, create a bootable floppy diskette (Go to an MSDos prompt (x:\ ('x' denote the dos prompt) and type format a:/s. therefore you have x:\format(space)a:/s) and copy AWDFLASH.EXE and your bios file to the bootable diskette. Then create a one-line AUTOEXEC.BAT file that reads something like:

AWDFLASH(space) BIOSFILE.BIN(space)/PY(space)/SN(space)/CC

Of course, substitute the name of your Bios file and Flash loader program. In most cases, this emergency code cannot access the screen and so you won't see anything happen. In some machines, beeps will signal that the process is complete. Otherwise wait for about five minutes or so, until the disk access has stopped for a while then try switching your machine completely off. Make sure that the Flash Bios floppy diskette is taken out of your floppy diskette drive, before turning the machine on. AMI have a similar but slightly different system - follow their instructions for preparing a bios backup diskette, then insert the diskette and hold down Ctrl-Home when turning on the computer. With all these suggestions, unless stated otherwise, it is advisable to have the Flash Bios diskette out of you machine prior to rebooting or switch on. If the computer is totally dead and none of these options work, possible solutions include:

a) If you have a name-brand motherboard (Abit, Asus, and so on), ask the motherboard manufacturer, if you know who they are, to send you a replacement Bios chip. Most are supplying replacement Bios chips nowadays or will reprogram your Bios chip for a modest charge.
b) Buying a new motherboard if it is not possible to replace the Bios chip.
c) Find an electronic engineer with an EPROM programmer that can take the kind of EPROM you have. Some EPROM programs are downloadable if you wish to have a go yourself (Be careful!).
d) Boot using a good Bios chip (designed for the same chipset), then 'hot-swap' the faulty Bios chip while the computer is running, so you can flash program it after the computer has finished booting. Actually, the Bios chip doesn't even have to be that compatible - just enough for you to get the boot block code running.

However you get your computer up and running again, it might be good to note that some motherboards have a jumper to write-protect the bios. Just don't confuse this with the jumper on other boards that force bios reflash (bios virus advice). In all that I have said a good policy is to be well informed of what may have happened and the procedures to get your computer up and running again. Read whatever is necessary in order the mistakes are eliminated before commencing.

That's what I wrote. I hope this is of help to you surrealchereal. Let me know if it works or any successful alternative you used. Good Luck.

All the best,
G

[GroundZero3]

Boot using a good Bios chip (designed for the same chipset), then 'hot-swap' the faulty Bios chip while the computer is running, so you can flash program it after the computer has finished booting. Actually, the Bios chip doesn't even have to be that compatible - just enough for you to get the boot block code running.

i just read what you wrote and im in the same boat. i have an abit mb with a dead chip but i have a bunch of different bios chips all at work. and you say that i don't need a compatible bios chip just one that will boot up the computer right?? if so send me an email explaining this and the procedure becasue im very interested in doing it. i could get a new chip for 14 bucks from abit but i would love to try this out!!


Jason

[surrealchereal]

Nas, oh yeah the 357 thing is a gun! and the 747 a plane.. sigh,,, http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
G ! G ! G !
A big thank you!!! Yes that is what I read about, I could conceptualize it, but not verbalize it, and I read Jason's post and hoped this would prompt someone to share this solution with him in my stead..
I just have not got a clue about my PC CHIPS board,, It is slow slow slow, benchmarks as about a 233,(500) Sandra, and a couple other programs told me it wasn't there and when I did try to flash the BIOS it did not work and said the software was not there. I have to figure something out tonight at the latest. I am giving the board and chip to a kid, and we are going to build it... I am really happy he is taking an interest in this (for his own good) and if the PC chips doesn't work right I will cough up the cash for a new one.. I don't want him disappointed with his first adventure.

Gz, aka Jason,,,
This is the reason I posted this the way I did,,, I was hopeing to get you an answer similar to this when I read your original post,,, I didn't have enough knowledge to repeat