Why do you use a MAC PC?

[grieg]

I have never used or even seen a MAC PC before. At the place I work which is Fortune 500 company we have over 900 PC's and none of them are MAC's why do people buy them and what do they do that Windows PC don't do?

[jaida]

the main reason that people buy macs is for the soul purpose that they are better in graphics applications than the pc.


This is due to the fact that they have a higher L1 cache than pc's.

[RobRich]

Several people prefer the MAC for superior graphics/animation rendering. The highly optimized RISC nature of the G4 combined with AltiVec SIMD instruction set lends to the MAC being a powerful processing platform.

Other MAC users prefer the operating enviroment offered by Apple's OS-9.x. The interface scales well for both novice and power users. I prefer PC's for their greater software software support with a wider range of hardware options, but the MAC does have its place within the market. Personally, I have even evaluated the prospects of purchasing a G4 system for my next primary desktop, once the Unix BSD-based OS-X gains widespread support.

Robert Richmond

[RayH]

Some people think Apple is the "People's PC"! But do you know anyone who's built a Mac from scratch?

[Nighthawk]

PCs are more useful for most people on this board (it _is_ *system optimization*) since they are much more configurable and can be homebuilt.

The G4s are 128-bit internal CPUs, and really smoke on things optimized for them, opposed to the Pentium/Athlons, which are 32-bit.

RISC vs. CISC is an old (and I do mean "old") debate, but everything I've seen shows that there really isn't much of a real performance difference between them.

[RobRich]

Contrary to Apple's mis-advertising, the G4 is a 32-bit processor. It only offers a parallel 4x32-bit internal bus for SIMD instructions. Apple's marketing department somehow believes this makes the G4 a 128-bit CPU.

Reference this thread for more info:

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011047.html

Catch ya' later,
Robert Richmond

[surrealchereal]

The G4s are 128-bit internal CPUs, and really smoke on things optimized for them, opposed to the Pentium/Athlons, which are 32-bit.

That's why when I was at the Apple State of the Union Address Jobs gave at the Mac World expo. He put his "new" processor up against a Pentium with a graphics program. Sure in that instance it blew the Pentium off the stage.
I must say tho after being behind enemy lines for a week, and watching the expressions of people listening to his speech (I was seated right behind the apple elite). I was really amazed at the expression of rapture on so many excited faces. Leaving me to believe some people people use Macs the way some people belong to cults. And no offence intended. I have this conversation with the person that got me the cart blanch invite to the show often. (sometimes ending in bloodshed http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[mind245]

I build PC's cause I have no money. I get the same power for a lot less. It requires a little extra work on my end to deal with fellow graphic designers. If I had the money I'd get a MAC or a MAC and PC.

Does OS X for MAC run unix apps? I thought I heard this.

[Variable]

I use a Mac because....


<FONT size="2">I don't use a MAC!!!! I'm lucky! No Eppi-lepsy for me!!! I never thought fruits should be put into computers! Also I see no sense in using a so called computer that nobody else uses (and nobody can share files with)....</FONT s>

[Keegan]

If you use Office 2001 for the Mac, then you CAN share files with just about any other version of Office, Mac or PC.

Taters.

[Variable]

Well I only once had to print out some office97 ?? files on a mac.... I even saved them using different file formats. To no avail, the §"!$%"§$ mac didn't recognize even one of them. So I just went to a buddy of mine with a REAL computer and printed the stuff on his machine.

[RobRich]

Most Linux, BSD, QNX, and Unix software packages compile perfectly fine under Mac OS-X. Considering the superb level of software support for these popular operating systems, this next-gen Mac OS is already supplemented with large variety of applications.

Robert Richmond

[This message has been edited by RobRich (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Warthog]

I would have to agree with the cult idea, surreal (please, no offense http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif). Some people will be loyal to a brand, no matter what the quality. It's the same with American made vehicles. I know many people who would rather die than use a Honda http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

Other than heavy graphics jobs, I see no benefits in buying a mac: higher price, limited software, limited hardware.

Warthog

[Variable]

Okay I understand people that don't want windows or other microsoft programs on their computer. fine. then use linux or beos! But why buy a much more expensive mac?
linux and beos are supposed to be that much faster than windows. they should just as fast as a mac and you probably have more linux programs then mac programs. and it is free!! and your hardware is much cheaper. and you can upgrade your hardware! and your computer doesn't look like it belongs to a three year old.

[wyvrn]

A lot of it has to do with software support. Business are locked into using a Windows OS for their end users. They use MSOffice most of the time, and Outlook as their email clients.

While BeOS and Linux may be superior, they are not as user friendly and/or have the wide range of software support that Micropoly has.

Plus BeOS does not have drivers for a wide range of hardware. I was going to install it, but hey, I would have to downgrade my hardware to do so. For the time being, I will have to stick with Windows2k. Now if Microsoft starts their new copyright measures in Whistler, I will ban their products and move over to BeOS or Linux.

As far as Mac's go, you have to buy hardware strictly from Apple. Why Steve Jobs will not license out his hardware to other companies is beyond me. It would bring the price of Apple computers down, likely gain a share in the market, and Apple could concentrate on being a software company. There is no way Apple can compete with Microsoft when their machines are so **** expensive and you have no choices.

[This message has been edited by wyvrn (edited 03-07-2001).]

[surrealchereal]

Hey who know knows why Job's does what he does! How about when the Mac users wanted 2 button mice like a PC, (instead of 1)? The next generation of the Mac mouse now has NO button! I do kinda like the "in yer face" attitude tho but I don't think its conducive to building a corporation's market share when it's towards the customer.

and your computer doesn't look like it belongs to a three year old.
Hey that's the part I like!

[This message has been edited by surrealchereal (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Sabbath]

I am a CAD technician and where I work at we produce a yearly catalog stating our products and there specs. We use PC and the company who put our catalog together used MACs do to there graphics ability. All we had to do to convert prints from PC to MAC was find a common plat form such as TIFF files.

I myself have no use for a MAC but there is a market out there for them.

[NDC]

Yep! The Computer graphics market that is.... Especially desktop publishing! Photoshop just runs much faster on a Mac than a PC! Yeah, yeah, yeah.. it's because Adobe optimized it to take advantage of the AltiVec engine to process 128bit data chunks Vs. P3's 32bit data processing with SSE optimizization. Trust me, PC comes nowhere near the speed of a Mac when it comes to Photoshop... Try it for yourself and you will see! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Variable]

So you're saying that if Photoshop weren't optimized for Apple it wouldn't run faster??
Seems like a big rip off to me...
also with new intel CPUs and AMDs getting faster and faster it won't be long till PCs are faster than Apple-pties!

What I also "love" about those Macs is their keyboard. I was at a convention were they had macs for surfing the internet... and the keyboards didn't show the @ on any key!! I had to copy it out of a website!! This is redicolous!

And the MOUSE?
I disconnected it and used the §!"$%"§$%&§$% Kayboard as good as possible...

[This message has been edited by Variable (edited 03-07-2001).]

[RayH]

Let's put it this way...about 3 years ago, the largest private engineering university in the country went from requiring Mac to PCs.

Macs are excellent computers. They are fairly standard built computers. PCs are computers built to standards. One of the major factors in reliablilty of Macs is the fact they are built the same.

When Mac was allowing the clones for a while, the Mac was suffering from some of the same problems we PC users do with our mongrel setups!

[wyvrn]

Standardization will solve some of the problems with incompatibility. The PC market has already done this. Apple could also require any participating companies to meet vigorous quality levels. It can be done, they just are not doing it. The Excuses approach Apple uses will put them out of business.

The fact that Mac is trying to win the war on the hardware and software fronts puts them in a compromising position. They need to pick one. Sega did this recently. With all of the competition in the gaming console market, they decided to quit hardware and just write programs for whatever consoles are out at the time. They should develop into a rather strong, diverse company in few years.

Microsoft has become the best because of their ability to adapt and keep pace just quickly enough with hardware standards set out by the industry. By being a software company, this has allowed them to concentrate their efforts in one area and become very very good at it. Let the pc companies slug it out in the hardware wars while Micropoly owns everyone in software.

Simple and brilliant.

**** I dislike (but admire) Microsoft.


[This message has been edited by wyvrn (edited 03-07-2001).]

[spuck]

ive noticed that there are more mac`s in movies than any other puter.

[daveleau]

Yes, I have even seen a PC with a Mac logo pasted on it. can't eremember which movie but it was from the mid-90's and it was a laptop.

[thekingofpain]

I have repeatedly found most people that dont understand why folks choose the Mac platform havnt taken the time to appreciate what an Apple computer is truly able to do...it seems to have become a "specialized" instrument---the NEWEST OS (X) will appeal to many...Id love to own a G4 OS X and Cinema display combo...

[emcron]

Macs have their place, that is true but it is beyond a lot of peoples reach. First of all I like choices, apple doesnt offer me many. Second, I'm a college student with little money and macs are to expensive. And third is there something that I can do on a mac and not a top of the line pc, which I can build for a lot less money?

[Dputiger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that while Intel/AMD chips are 32-bit processors they use an internal 64-bit data bus to move data to the 32-bit registers.

[DemonKnight]

I thought that was just the PCI architecure. (what would be the point of moving 64bits of data into 32bit spaces?)

[CMonster]

More about the G4 CPU: (quoting myself from another thread)
"The G4 is an awesome chip! The superscaler core basically consists of 2 32bit interger units working in parallel, and an FPU unit that
appears to be 64bit wide or at least produces 64bit result. The AltiVec unit (the vectored part) can handle 4, 32bit words in parallel
(either interger or floating point) or 8, 16bit interger words, or 16, 8 bit words (like a single pixel) in parallel in a single clock cycle!
Awesome SIMD!

However, programs need to be optimized with the AltiVec extended instruction set similar to the way PC programs may use MMX,
SSE, or 3D-Now. Just how much of Photoshop was optimized for the G4s Altivec unit is unknown but the good folks at Adobe
probably just optimized the photoshop module that would benefit most from it.

In Benchmarks at the same clock speed as a PC the G4 will BLOW the PC out of the way, but as you increase the PCs clock by
150-200mhz or more the difference becomes less apparent. With the fastest G4s running 450mhz and the PCs now up in the Ghz
range the fastest execution for the desktop dollars $ may favor PCs (at home where we do not care much about power consumption)
-- however, for scientific applications where efficiency is measured in MFLOP per watt the G4 has got to be one of the best ways to
go.

been there done that http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum9/HTML/002040.html




[This message has been edited by CMonster (edited 03-08-2001).]

[mind245]

I think that the future may be alright for Apple. PC's are becoming a commodity. Prices and profit margins on hardware are dropping. In such an environment people are less likely to mind paying a slight premium for computer they like better.

This community represents one end of the spectrum. We like to take things apart/tweak but most people aren't interested in that.

I also think that down the road, use of internet will largely overshadow OS specific apps. The internet could very well level the playing field. Similar to how OS's run equally well on AMD and Intel hardware.

[Dputiger]

I disagree--Apple will forever be in trouble as long as they rely on hardware sales for profit AND that hardware is priced well above the x86 equivalent.

As to the 64-bit data bus requirement I'm not sure, but I cross checked it on several sites--ever since the Pentium all chips have had a 64-bit path.

[Variable]

Also prices and profit margins are only dropping for PC's not for shMAC's!
They only dropped prices for the new MAC's because they couldn't sell them anymore!
I think their sales dropped by something like 80 % from 300 000 to something around 60 000 for iMAC's I think.
I don't remember the exact numbers but they have BIG Problems!

[Variable]

oops double posting....

well, I will make the best of it:
Also lots of mac users got pissed when Steve Jobs changed the company strategy from tell-it-all and share-it-all to that's-non-of-your-freakin'-business-just-buy-the-****-thing!

[This message has been edited by Variable (edited 03-08-2001).]

[ZENYO]

Bring back the floppy!!!!! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Warthog]

I have repeatedly found most people that dont understand why folks choose the Mac platform havnt taken the time to appreciate what an Apple computer is truly able to do

Ok, enlighten me, TKOP http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

Besides graphics apps, what is a mac TRULY able to do? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

the highest customer loyalty base I have ever seen

Oh yeah, definately. Almost always, when I'm around a macky and their puter, they say something like "blah blah blah and it would be MUCH harder to do that with a pc!"

Warthog

[prillion]

You know I’ve been MIS for 14 years and it seem like nothing ever changes.
The new comers always tout the fall of Apple every year because they just don’t understand the Computer Industry as a whole yet. Later they settle down, actually get some solid work experience on a Apple workgroup or WAN, for a year or so, and end up always saying “Oh, I get it, these things are pretty cool!” and end up buying one. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this.
Apple has never and will never go out of business. Apple makes about 8 bills a year, has the highest customer loyalty base I have ever seen, and the second most well known name in the world. Even if apple bottomed out, IBM or SUN would buy them immediately and continue to produce apple computers. You never throwaway a corp name like “APPLE Computers” in big business.
I have about 6 pc-clones at home (AMD,P3,etc,etc..), 1 SGI, Sun Spar, and about 4 Apples all ppc’s.
And I have to tell some of you guys whether you like Apple or not, The Apple computer combined with the mac os, and the various emulators, are the most productive computers I have used in my long career. The stability of an Apple machine is nothing short of amazing. It is an excellent computer. I think the 96% return rate of apple computer users says a lot about the products it makes.
In the hugely diverse world of computer products there is more than enough room for Apple computers to thrive. I believe the macintosh ppc, specifically, is where MS and pc-clones will be in 2-3 years.
Well enough of this old mans banter.
The simple message is Apple will be here long after we’re all gone, and it should be, after all if it didn’t fill some purpose, we all know, Apple wouldn’t have lasted.

[CMonster]

"Apple has never and will never go out of business." http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif hahaha!

Overconfidence kills! Want to see someone laugh in your face? -Try telling that to the former employees of 3dfx. You might also take a look at Intel's stock price today.

I think that the much vaunted "loyalty" of Apple users stems from their fear of change - having more than one mouse button usually confuses them.

[This message has been edited by CMonster (edited 03-09-2001).]

[Variable]

=========
and it seem like nothing ever changes.
The new comers always tout the fall of Apple every year because they just don’t understand the Computer Industry as a whole yet.
=========

Nice try....
...but I wouldn't say stuff like that to people on a board like this!
(get the hint? there just might be some people here that have a tiny, tiny chance of understanding the industry even better than you and have more experience than you....? Just a tiny, tiny chance. After all nobody here understands how computers work and nobody here knows how to use them....)

BTW: Who are the new comers?

[This message has been edited by Variable (edited 03-09-2001).]

[ArnoldLLerch]

New comer! I got my first PC, an old 486, three and a half years ago. Now I have a 16,000 sq. ft. warehouse full of them. I strip and reassemble some. Some go to other countries that are not as affluent as we are.
I also have hundreds of Macs and Apples. Not a one of which is user friendly for rebuilding purposes. I have one Apple up and running that was intact when it hit the warehouse and it is running OS9 and I still can't get it onto my LAN after three months with a "Mac Expert" trying to help me with it! So, I'm the only newecomer here?

ARNi LEE
Waiting for FMD

[ArnoldLLerch]

I must be a "newcomer." I got my first 486 about three and a half years ago. Now I have a 16,000 sq. ft. warehouse full of computers and parts, including Macs and Apples. I strip and rebuild some of the PC's and some go to other, less affluent countries for schools, hospitals and etc. Mac and Apple are hard to work on, parts from one often are not compatible with another of the same series. Of the hundreds of Macs and
Apples that have come in I have one running and I had to call a Mac technician to come in and load the program. I watched him do it and still cannot get the program to load on any other Mac in the place (OS9). I ship Macs and Apples to the Orient to be recycled for the metals. Any other "Newcomers"?

ARNi LEE
Waiting for FMD

[Warthog]

man....I expected more from the Mac side in this argument...

LOL CMonster about the mouse http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Warthog

[This message has been edited by Warthog (edited 03-09-2001).]

[Dputiger]

In my opinion, the whole PC vs. Mac argument is quickly becoming a great example of Newton's Laws: A Body in Motion tends to Remain in Motion.

Consider:

The CISC vs. RISC debate: Meaningless. Both x86 and G4 designs incorporate ideas from BOTH.

The GUI debate: Ridiculous. The companies involved have settled it--why can't we? No matter who took what from whom, GUI's are NOT going anywhere.

The "Mine is bigger (I mean faster) than yours debate": REALLY ridiculous. If modern benchmarks show anything, it's that code optimization often shows a much bigger performance difference than brute power.

Also, with the PERFORMANCE offered by modern CPU's of ANY type, it hardly matters. Gee, the Mac can process a photo in 1 second--the P3 takes 1.5"

OR

My PC can run Quake III at 220 FPS! The G4+ can only do 100!

WHO CARES?

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[paul233]

this discussion is about how competition (and maybe industrial espionage) makes for a better world. Here are facts:

a) If it weren't for Apple we would all still be typing c:/ to get started;

b) If it weren't for wintels we would still be paying 2 k for a system that would balance our checkbooks and little else.

There is a place for macs, a tiny little corner of the art and design world where they rule cuz the software is written for them.

[MiKe85]

Although i've seen/used macs before...(Once in school)

Outside of schools i don't...

Mike

[NDC]

That's because it's hard to see people using them out of schools other than graphic companies.....

[surrealchereal]

Warty! Maybe there is no Mac side to this argument... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
(quoting myself from another thread)
Cmonster,,I don't know why but I'm still ROLF http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif?
I might quote myself sometime http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif I love it! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif thanks.

The way I feel about Mac's is,,, I loved mine. I started with a little IIsi, ( heck it was only 3 or 4 grand) and then when I realized no matter how much ram I put in even with that huge 256k hard drive..,, it was just too tiny and slow. I got a power Mac. What finally got me was I just got sick of seeing all this good looking soft ware for the PC and I didn't get any... Why did I have to get the gopher from off site,? I was treated like the ugly step child on (laugh go ahead) Prodigy.....etc etc etc..So ,,. I got a pc, 120 mghz compact.. took it out of the box, booted it, had to reinstall the operating system SEVERAL TIMES and didn't come out of the den for litterally 3 days.. I saw, I was challenged, I was amazed. I could poke a button and it would blow up,,, or not. I loved that there was so much going on in there that the Mac never eluded to! The Mac ran so discretley and effortlessly, It never occured to me that anything was even really going on!! Therefore never picking my curiosity.... Thank goodness for that 1st PC... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Warthog]

My computer teacher asked me if I knew anything about macs because she was having difficulty fixing another teachers mac....hehehe, I was thinking, You are asking the WRONG person, lady!
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
Warthog