P4 with strange lock ups.

[Wackjum]

Hi,

I thought I had seen every problem in computing over the years far from but it sure seems like it) until I ran into this. And of all computers that it has to happen to, its' my personal one... I'm really at my wit's end here so any and all suggestions would be great. I'm listing the specs, then the problem, quirks I've noticed, and then steps I took to try and solve it. Am I overlooking something simple here?


SPECS:

Pentium 4 Northwood 2.0 ghz non OCed
Intel 850MV motherboard
2 x 256 non-ECC pc800 RDRAM
Gainward Ti4200
Creative SB Live! 5.1
Linksys NIC
Some Rockwell modem
40 gb Western Digital HD
Running Windows XP Pro


PROBLEM:

The computer freezes at random intervals. It likes to happen the most during games, during multi-tasking (such as browsing the web with two browser windows), and when running applications that require constant hard disk access. The computer completely freezes and inputs no longer register. Sometimes the computer will turn off automatically. Other times, it will just hang and continually display the last image until rebooted. It also crashes when running low demanding applications such as MS Word and Starcraft. A few times, it will shut down after POST but before loading Windows. This clears up on reboot.


NOTABLE OBSERVATIONS:

1) The computer is not overheating. If left alone, the computer can run for at least a week (before it was manually shut down). Temperature sensors always register heat in the normal range.

2) Several applications are gauranteed to crash the computer within 10 minutes. These are: MadOnion 3dMark2001, Windows XP Disk Defragmenter, and running the Unreal Tournament Intro movie (but gameplay will usually work for upwards of 40 mins).

3) While it hangs at different times during 3dMark, if Intel's ATA drivers are uninstalled and reinstalled, the computer will successfully complete the 3dMark benchmark one time following the required reboot. Attempts to run 3dmark again will result in a freeze.

4) The computer can run MadOnion PCMark2002 benchmarking software indefinitely with no problems.

5) Playing mp3's will not crash the computer. However, videos can (although it can take up to several hours).

6) Through the use of FPU and Integer crunching programs, the CPU can be loaded to 100% Usage and maintained there for what appears to be an unlimited amount of time without crashing.

7) Because the computer is running ACPI, several IRQs are shared. Harddrive control card and sound (IRQ 9), Graphics and modem (IRQ 11), USB hub and USB hub (IRQ 12).

8) The computer lags severely when running Windows XP's "3d Text" screensaver but it gets 90 fps in Quake III.

9) Intel is kind of useless. They just tell me to be sure to install their drivers in the correct order (which I did).



ATTEMPTS TO SOLVE PROBLEM (Not necessarily in order done):

1) Updated all drivers, firmwares, and flashed motherboard BIOS.

2) Clean booted the computer with only a harddrive, floppy, and graphics card.

3) Swapped out/replaced the following components: Graphics card, modem, LAN, RAM chips.

4) Changed harddrive mode from Ultra DMA 5 to PIO 4 (and other Ultra DMA modes).

5) Formatted and clean installed Windows XP 4 times (crashes from the very beginning every time).

6) Disabled all power saving schemes.

7) Removed ACPI and installed a Standard PC HAL. Then manually assigned IRQs to each component.

8) Disabled the sound.

9) Disabled USB.

10) Reinstalled Direct X.

11) Disassembled entire computer and reassembled to insure all components properly seated.

12) Adjusted PCI latency timer to different values (in BIOS).

13) Disconnected all fans (to lessen strain on power supply).


CURRENT THEORIES:

1) The motherboard is defective.

2) The power supply is providing unsteady amounts of power.

3) Black magic.


I'm hitting the bottom of the idea barrel and I built this computer myself. So really, I'm not looking forward to trying to return all of this stuff. Any and all suggestions would be great.

[BipolarBill]

It's usually a video issue. Try another card for awhile. Completely uninstall the present drivers.

It's quite possible that this is a PSU problem as well. The auto-reboot can also be caused by Windows. Look in System > Advanced > Startup and Recovery. Untick "Automatically restart" and set the memory dump to none. This way you may see the error as a blue-screen with text.

[cheekymonkey]

You seem to have tried quite a bit and say you have swapped a lot of stuff out, maybe the hdd is on its way out?

Try building xp on a fresh drive?

[missiveusa]

This might sound off the mark, but my PC was doing virtully the same thing as you describe is happening with yours. I have an Athlon XP-based KT-266A system that was locking up at random intervals, but as I started to monitor temps closely, I noticed it locked up everytime sensor showed 45*C. Sure, many people run Athlons well above that temp, but I was sure I was dealing with a hsf problem. Sure enough, I removed the Thermaltake 6 cu+ with the black wax thermal pad and installed a Swiftech hs with Pabst fan using AS3. Temps dropped 7-8*F and PC has not locked up since. I've run it through benchmark loops, Sandra tests, no more lock ups.

I can't explain it. I know Pentiums run quite a bit cooler than Athlons, but I have a friend with a P3 that used to lock up every ten minutes. It was a hsf problem. The sink was not making proper contact with the core.

So, since you've tried everything else, you might try reinstalling the heatsink using AS3. Good luck.

[AllGamer]

Wackjum
Welcome to Systop! :t

:p


Try running a barebone system with your current setup, and see if the same thing is happening

basically

1 hdd
1 fdd
1 video
1 monitor
1 psu
1 mobo
1 stick of ram

no sound
no nic
no usb/ unless your mouse/keyb needs it
no anything extra

:t

[Strawbs]

My first suspect would be the XP disk is corrupted or scratched and installing a corrupt file somewhere.

Second would be Direct X (I'm sure there's a utility out there that uninstalls it for you), then you could do a clean re-install.

If it were the Power Supply or some other random occurence, PC mark and all other programs would also be affected.

[Strawbs]

OK! This (http://www.computerhope.com/directx.htm) site says you shouldn't uninstall Direct X, but I reckon your installation may be corrupt.

Scroll down to the troubleshooting section.

You might try downloading a fresh instance and installing again.

[Baddog]

Originally posted by Wackjum


PROBLEM:

The computer freezes at random intervals. It likes to happen the most during games, during multi-tasking (such as browsing the web with two browser windows), and when running applications that require constant hard disk access. The computer completely freezes and inputs no longer register. Sometimes the computer will turn off automatically. Other times, it will just hang and continually display the last image until rebooted. It also crashes when running low demanding applications such as MS Word and Starcraft. A few times, it will shut down after POST but before loading Windows. This clears up on reboot.



What is the possibilty of someone accessing (hacking) your computer on line?

I have seen this type of slowdown in our network before when a computer has been accessed by another member.:t

[Wackjum]

Hey, thanks everybody for the really quick response times. And you all have given some great ideas. (And thanks AllGamer. I've been reading these forums for quite awhile now but never posted.)

But here's a little more into the problem that unfortunately covers a few of the suggestions.

It started doing this a day after I built it and got it running for the first time. Since not all of the parts were acquired at the same time, I just figured it was because of some conflict or what not with the components I had just added in (modem and NIC). So I did barebone it with the intention of putting things back in one by one.

Turns out, it locks up with just a bare set up (although in reference to AllGamer's suggestion, I can't run just one stick of RAM. RD-RAM requires they be installed in pairs and with CRIMMs too).

Since it really likes to lock up when running stuff that involves graphics work (although it also locks on Disk Defrag...) my first guess was graphics card.

I took out the Ti4200 and put in a Ti200 that was laying around, with no avail. I then stuck in an MX440 with similar results. Each time I was using Detonator 28.84 (the newest ones at the time that were WHQL certified).

I also stuck the Ti4200 in another system and the card works fine. End result... I'm pretty sure it's not a graphics problem.

I pretty much repeated this with every component of the bare bones set up (there are a few systems I have access to for fixing and posting on message boards... :) ), except for the CPU and Motherboard. However, my impression is that Intel motherboards have always been of pretty high build quality so I'm hesitant to say that's what is going on.

I also thought the Windows Installation might have been corrupt, only I um... temporarily installed Windows XP on another system (for a temporary basis of course) with the same CD.

Along those lines, I swapped out IDE cables and the CD-Drive on the basis that they might have been corrupting the install.

Temperature wise, that's always possible. I'm using the stock heat sink/fan assembly that Intel packages and those are generally good but I'll try and get an aftermarket fan to play around with. Still, this kind of conflicts with the idea of the computer being able to crunch numbers at 100% Utilization for days on end provided I disable screensaver etc. By the way, I'm using Distributed.net's client for the number crunching.

I am almost pretty sure that the problem is software since uninstalling and reinstalling drivers sometimes lets it run a successful benchmark once.

Also, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with Intel's really spartan BIOS program but there's an option that says "Clear Flash Memory on next boot." It clears some kind of flash memory that is linked to the PCI configuration. Clearing this sometimes let's the computer run a benchmark too.

Anyway, I have to run. But again, thanks for the very quick and genuine responses. I'll check back in later in the evening. (with or without pictures of me tossing the system out of a 6th story window).

Take care, and thanks again.

[Strawbs]

Closely examine the contacts on and around the AGP socket for any mis-alignment\cracking\dis-colouring or if possible, just swap the board for a new one.

try to remove that element from the equasion.

[Wackjum]

Just thought you guys would like to know that the computer is fixed (I think).

Working with one of the suggestions (and I forgot who posted it), I went into Windows XP>Administrative Settings and set it to "No memory dump."

While I was there, I also unchecked the "Send Administrative Alert" setting. All of this in the hopes of getting a blue screen.

Well it hasn't crashed since (!?).

I've had it running a Quake III demo loop since last night.

So anyway, maybe somebody out there with a Ph.D in computer science knows why things turned out like this. I'm content with not ever understanding.

Thanks everybody for the quick replies and suggestions.

[BipolarBill]

I do more work by accident than AllGamer does on purpose! :p

[AllGamer]

Taking the long way around is the best way to learn :p

[Strawbs]

BPB... The Luckiest Lucker that ever Lucked Luck. :D