which motherboard?

[cheapster]

I am trying to decide between the following motherboards:
SHUTTLE AK35GTR VIA KT266A CHIPSET ULTRA ATA133 ATX FORM FACTOR 1xAGP(4X)/6xPCI/4xDDR W/RAID & AUDIO Detail Specs (CPU TYPE:AMD DURON, ATHLON) $63.00

Shuttle AK35GT2 Motherboard for AMD Processors Retail
Specifications:
CPU Support: Duron, XP, Athlon 200/266 FSB
FSB: 200/266 (bios adjustable)
Chipsets: KT333- VT8367/VT8233A
Mem: 4 x 184-pin DIMM DDR up tp 3 GB
IDE: 2 x UltraDMA/100/133 Bus Master
IO:1 FD 2 Serial, 1 Parallel, 1 Game, 2 PS2 2 USB
Ports: 1 AGP-1,2,4X 1.5/3.3v 6x PCI slots
Intregrated Audio C-media 8738 Model#: AK35GT2 $74.00

Shipping runs about $8 on each.
The way I see it is the former is $12 cheaper, and includes RAID while using the older KT266a chipset, while the latter uses the latest KT333 chipset but doesn't have RAID. I am trying to do a cheap upgrade on a box used primarily for gaming. System specs:

MSI-6309 Apollo 133A
Celeron 600 @ 900
384 MB Crucial PC-133 c2
Visiontek Geforce 3 Ti200 64 mb
Enlight 7237 case
Maxtor 80 D740x
Maxtor 20 gig 5400 rpm
HP 9350i CDRW
Samsung 52X CD-ROM
D-Link 530TX 10/100 network card
Turtle Beach Montego II sound card
Altec Lansing AVS-500 speakers
KDS AV7T 17" Trinitron monitor
Lexmark E210 Laser Printer

Any comments? Appreciate any input or other suggestions for a "bang for the buck" upgrade. I already picked up a 256 mb stick of Crucial PC-2100 DDR ram. Thanks.
Chuck

[Benssax]

From what I hear the best mobo for an Athlon xp is the Epox 8K3A+

http://www.epox.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-8K3Aplus&lang=1

:)

[Benssax]

The epox will cost you 100 bucks. Here

http://www.z-buy.com/product.asp?item=mb-ep8k3ap

[newkiddope]

check out this thread, if you haven't seen it yet (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115837)

If it were me, I'd avoid the Shuttle.:eek:

[cheapster]

I had seen the thread regarding shuttle's lack of support. Kind of reminds me of when I tried numerous times to get soyo to respond to some inquiries about one of their boards I had purchased. And as for the glowing remarks about Visiontek, I wonder if that was before or after the company went into receivership? :r All I know is I helped a friend put together a shuttel AK31 rev.3 board and it went together just as easily as my MSI based systems did. I was impressed. He later had some major problems with it, but it turned out to be a bad stick of crucial ram. (Now if you want to talk about great support, start with Mushkin and Crucial..) He still teases me about the shuttle board, but we both know it was the ram. I just think that a quality KT266a board with raid for under $73 shipped may be too good a deal to pass up. I have also read a lot of posts praising the shuttle AK35GT boards, so I guess we will see.
Chuck
PS Anyone know anything about the SIS 745 chipset? I see googlegear has a MSI 6561 board for $67 plus shipping. Hopefully it is better than the SIS 735 chipset....

[cheapster]

I had seen the thread regarding shuttle's lack of support. Kind of reminds me of when I tried numerous times to get soyo to respond to some inquiries about one of their boards I had purchased. And as for the glowing remarks about Visiontek, I wonder if that was before or after the company went into receivership? :r All I know is I helped a friend put together a shuttel AK31 rev.3 board and it went together just as easily as my MSI based systems did. I was impressed. He later had some major problems with it, but it turned out to be a bad stick of crucial ram. (Now if you want to talk about great support, start with Mushkin and Crucial..) He still teases me about the shuttle board, but we both know it was the ram. I just think that a quality KT266a board with raid for under $73 shipped may be too good a deal to pass up. I have also read a lot of posts praising the shuttle AK35GT boards, so I guess we will see.
Chuck
PS Anyone know anything about the SIS 745 chipset? I see googlegear has a MSI 6561 board for $67 plus shipping. Hopefully it is better than the SIS 735 chipset....

[Antix]

If you are looking for an SiS 745 chipset based board, I can only recommend the Asus A7S333. Cheap board, but comes with the features of it's A7V brothers.

http://usa.asus.com/mb/socketa/a7s333/overview.htm

[cheapster]

I had seen the thread regarding shuttle's lack of support. Kind of reminds me of when I tried numerous times to get soyo to respond to some inquiries about one of their boards I had purchased. And as for the glowing remarks about Visiontek, I wonder if that was before or after the company went into receivership? :r All I know is I helped a friend put together a shuttel AK31 rev.3 board and it went together just as easily as my MSI based systems did. I was impressed. He later had some major problems with it, but it turned out to be a bad stick of crucial ram. (Now if you want to talk about great support, start with Mushkin and Crucial..) He still teases me about the shuttle board, but we both know it was the ram. I just think that a quality KT266a board with raid for under $73 shipped may be too good a deal to pass up. I have also read a lot of posts praising the shuttle AK35GT boards, so I guess we will see.
Chuck
PS Anyone know anything about the SIS 745 chipset? I see googlegear has a MSI 6561 board for $67 plus shipping. Hopefully it is better than the SIS 735 chipset....

[Antix]

You can't stop reposting anytime now before you're account gets banned.

[cheapster]

Hey, I don't know how those reposts got there! Unless the "preview reply" function is somehow messed up!:eek:

[Snix]

Originally posted by newkiddope
If it were me, I'd avoid the Shuttle.:eek:

Why do you say avoid Shuttle? I'm interested in the same model (AK35GT2) as cheapster is and would just like to know your reasoning.

[Logan[TeamX]]

My ECS K7S5A runs just fine, and lets me O/C my Palomino XP 1800+ to 2100 levels without a glitch.

[newkiddope]

I have no experience at all with them , I'm only going on info from another post in another thread. Click on my link above for more info. :)

If a company has a reputation for bad customer service or tech support, I generally stay away. On the flip-side of this, I've recently started to hear some bad-mouthing of Soyo in these areas, but the overwhelming consensus for Soyo that I've seen is that they're an awesome board.

I'm still rebuilding pentium 120's, 133's, and 200's, and boards with isa slots in 'em. Maybe I'm not the best one to listen to. Just for what it's worth.
:t

[AllGamer]

I vote for the MSI :t

[Antix]

Don't worry newkid, I'm am currently resurrecting a PCChips M537DMA33 / IBM 6x86MX PR200 (@ 200) / 16MB EDO / 545MB Seagate / 425MB Maxtor for use a linux learning box. :D

I have been able to OC to 233, but it is not stable.

[Gokudan]

hi guys, well here it is, my first post:
as a matter of fact SOYO is one of the best mobo manufacturer but lately their mobos are having some compatibility problems with various peripherals like vid cards, sound cards, and also are having probs with their onboard audio and lan. i was plannig to buy a DRAGON ULTRA KT333 PLATINUM but there were 2 things that made me draw back, 1.- the high price, 2.- the tons of problems those mobo series are having , i saw tons and tons of posts on a user group forum created by soyo.


if u want a decent athlon mobo i recomend MSI mobos.

http://www.msi.com.tw


check these ones:

-KT3 Ultra. price around $70 - $90
-KT3 Ultra-ARU (integrated raid, i think it has usb 2.0, but don't remember) price around $107.88 - $142
-KT3 Ultra2. (usb 2.0) price around $102- $122
-KT3 Ultra2-R (integrated raid, usb 2.0) dunno price

these prices were checked at:

http://active-hardware.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php/page_id=40/start=25/ut=c82c11a82021af40/

[Snix]

Hi Gokudan, welcome to Sysopt!

:t

[Snix]

Hi newkidd, thanks for the link. I read the thread and looks like it's not really much to worry about. Luckily only 4 people posted and P4 Gamer had problems with ATI which is still a very popular company that sells great video cards. Nevertheless, hopefully ATI and Shuttle sell good products even if their support may not be so good. :)

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by newkiddope
If a company has a reputation for bad customer service or tech support, I generally stay away. On the flip-side of this, I've recently started to hear some bad-mouthing of Soyo in these areas, but the overwhelming consensus for Soyo that I've seen is that they're an awesome board.

Agree with the staying away thing.

like you i know Soyo to be a good board, but as any other product don't expect much from tech support, all companies sucks at them.

[newkiddope]

Yeah, Allgamer, come to think of it, I have heard that mobo producers in general have not on the whole been outstanding at cs/tech support. Thank God for sysopt!:D

[newkiddope]

Originally posted by Antix:
Don't worry newkid, I'm am currently resurrecting a PCChips M537DMA33 / IBM 6x86MX PR200 (@ 200) / 16MB EDO / 545MB Seagate / 425MB Maxtor for use a linux learning box.

Antix- Is there anything I shuold be on the lookout for in terms of memory compatibility in systems that old? I've seen on amazon.com that there are different speeds, i.e., 60ns vs 70ns, can I get away with mixing or interchanging these memory sticks?

Of course I DO know about simm vs dimm. As I understand it, they are NOT compatible. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
:confused: (my normal state of mind, by the way...;)

[BipolarBill]

If the mainboard takes both DIMMs and SIMMs, you must choose one. Yes - the "ns" speeds should match. You should also match the metal in the slot contacts. If you have tin contacts in the slot, get tin memory sticks. If it's gold, match that too. If you don't, you'll get corrosion due to dissimilar metals (although this takes some time).

[newkiddope]

Thanks, Bill.

If I look at the empty board, how do I know if they're dimm slots or simms?

Also- if I mix-n-match ns speeds, will I simply get the slowest speed, or is it more complicated than that?

[AllGamer]

yes you get the slowest speed of the slowest DIMM :(

[BipolarBill]

72-pin SIMM slots are about 3" long as compared to 4" for DIMMs. SIMMs are placed in at an angle and snapped down on tiny posts to secure. DIMMs are placed it straight and have levers on the ends for locking.

[AllGamer]

to complement the info posted by Bill
there are 2 kinds of DIMMs so far

SD RAM with 168 pins
and
DDR RAM with 184 pins

and i can't recall but i think
RD RAM (rambus ram) is with 192 pins

[unkrun]

My son is running a ECS K7S5A for a few months with a AMD Thunderbird 950 on it and it seems fine, I just ordered another with some more parts at NEWEGG.COM , They have it on sale for 52.99 w/ free shipping! RoN:D

[Antix]

RDRAM is also 184 pin.

[mcool61]

Trying to finger out a new system myself. 2000xp pc2700 333 ddr ata133 usb2 is on the wish list. Do I want raid? I know there is more than one kind but it sounded like to me was best for servers or someone writing large files. striping is what a gamer would use, right? No waiting to write files but reading from possibly 2drives to get one file?

[newkiddope]

Thanks gang. Sorry I kinda got off the subject here. You know how these new kids are...;)

We now return to our regular programming, same bat time, same bat channel. (or something like that):r

[BipolarBill]

Originally posted by mcool61
Trying to finger out a new system myself. 2000xp pc2700 333 ddr ata133 usb2 is on the wish list. Do I want raid? I know there is more than one kind but it sounded like to me was best for servers or someone writing large files. striping is what a gamer would use, right? No waiting to write files but reading from possibly 2drives to get one file? I recently set up a RAID 0 system and then switched back to a single drive. It hurt - it really hurt. RAID 0 starts the PC and applications much faster than a single drive.

The RAID controllers built in to motherboards generally offer either RAID 0 or 1 - not 0+1. If you buy a board without RAID and add a card like the Promise FastTrack, you can use 0+1 and have security and speed. Figure four 80GB OEM drives for about $400 and you'll end up with what is essentially a blazingly fast 160GB drive with built-in fault-tolerance. You still have to back up the OS, naturally.

RAID 0 improves on read speed, but not write speeds.

At any rate, I don't recommend a motherboard with onboard "lite" RAID.

[Gokudan]

thx for the welcome Snix. :D


well so far this is what i researched about MSI boards RAID function, i hope it does the job:



-KT3 Ultra-ARU:

-Promise 20276 On-Board
-Support ATA133 IDE RAID 0 or 1
-Can connect up to 4 IDE devices
-Backward compatible to ATA100 RAID 0 or 1

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=30&MODEL=MS-6380E

*****



-KT3 Ultra2-R:

-Promise 20276 On-Board.
-Supports ATA133 RAID 0 or 1.


http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=341&MODEL=MS-6380E

*****



the boards links look the same but they lead to different pages ;)

[BipolarBill]

As stated, the Promise 20276 is a "Lite" controller and cannot do both RAID 1 and 0. It cannot be used for single drives either. A Promise FastTrack card can do both.

[Gokudan]

didn't knew that , well it says so on the description above, either 0 or 1


after all raid was meant to be for 2 hd, that works for me hehe :D

[cheapster]

Thanks to those who posted to assist me with the latest motherboard decision. After careful review, I decided to stick with my favorite motherboard manufacturer Microstar International, Inc. The KT3 Ultra2 was priced right ($82 shipped from newegg.com) offers support for PC-2700 (for down the road)and should be decently fast with my new retail XP 1700+ and 256 mb stick of Crucial PC-2100 DDR. I almost went for the 745 Ultra, after reading stories of awesome overclocking on overclockers workbench. But by the time I got back to newegg to order, they had sold them out! So I decided to stick with Via, (at least it is familiar, since all 4 systems here use the Via chipsets, 2 Apollo Pro 133a, 1 KT133E and 1 KT133a) so I am hoping this new MSI board is at least as stable and reliable as my existing older ones. Thanks again for any suggestions.
Chuck

[Snix]

Have fun with your setup, cheapster! :)

[BipolarBill]

This message is being typed on an Ultra-ARU right now. It's on 24/7, has 7 IDE drives and a SCSI tape/scanner with all slots in use. I like it. :D

[jmichna]

Originally posted by BipolarBill
...The RAID controllers built in to motherboards generally offer either RAID 0 or 1 - not 0+1. If you buy a board without RAID and add a card like the Promise FastTrack, you can use 0+1 and have security and speed....Bill...
The Promise on-board RAID only offers RAID-0 or RAID-1; the HighPoint on-board RAID mobos (HPT372/374) offer RAID-0, -1, -0+1, -5 and JBOD. THe HighPoint RAID boards seems to boot faster, and seem to benchmark out at faster HD transfer speeds. I've got an Asus A7V133 with the Promise, and have had an Abit slot-A (don't remember, might have been the K7A-100), and have an EPoX 8K3A+ with the HighPoint controllers.

If, however, I were to builod a new IDE-RAID system today, I'd look at the 3Ware Escalade series of controller cards... assuming $$$ was not an object, and best performance (short of SCSI) was the goal.
jmichna

[BipolarBill]

The 3Ware is da stuff! Adaptec has a nice one too:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=423219&ut=18a04c6a7a7d6b10&found=2&search=Adaptec%20ATA%20RAID%202400A

It uses the Highpoint.

So does Promise:

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/02q3/020830/ide_raid2-04.html#6channel_monster_promise_supertrak_sx6000

[bushmaster]

This (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/server/svr/pro_svr_detail.php?UID=73&MODEL=MS-6501)

+

This (http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.html?sess=no&prodkey=ASR-3400S&cat=/Technology/RAID/Two+and+Four-Channel+SCSI+RAID)

= What I was looking into as an alternative to the dual intel raid box I set up.


But at $800 plus per card I almost had an anurism.

So at $50 a pop the promise ata 133 raid cards looked alot more attractive.

[AllGamer]

Same reason why i took the Fast Trak 133 for my RAID toys and used that money on to 4 biggie 160 gig HDDs

:D

now i'm planning the same stund in 4 * 320 gig HDDs

as talked over this other thread

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116543