Good strategy game?

[NJEnviroguy]

Can anyone recommend a good strategy game?
I thought one of the best was SW Rebellion. I was looking at the Civilization series and thought they were so-so.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

There are NO good strategy games, theyre all cr@p :p

From what i hear from those sort of people whoare into that sort of thing:

Shogun: Total War
Commando's 2
Age OF Empires 2
Ground Control
Z: Steel soldiers
C+C red alert 2
Cossacks : The art of war
Warcraft 3

... now i refuse to tlak about these orrible games any furthur :p

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

I like
StarCraft + Broodwar exp
Red Alert 2 + Yuri expansion is very good.
Dune 3D (Emperor)
Empire Earth is also good
Civilization 3

that was listed in my preference order
there are more, but the rest i hardly play them.

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa

Shogun: Total War
Commando's 2
Age OF Empires 2
Ground Control
Z: Steel soldiers
C+C red alert 2
Cossacks : The art of war
Warcraft 3


Shogun = old MS Age of Empires = boring
Commando 2 = is a 3d First person shooter, so i don't consider it a Strategical game

Age of Empires 2 = boring, no futuristic stuff

Ground Control = not bad, nut kinda lame compared to other better games like Tribes 2 and alikes.
for that case, Red Alert 3D Renegade is better.

Z !! = only ****, too boring of a game, another lame excuse of being a strategical game

C+C red alert 2 = good decent game

Cossacks : The art of war = never heard of it, no comments

Warcraft 3 = very good game, in 3D engine, but too bad is only medieval and mystical stuff, else this will have been a kick a.s.s. game for me.
i'm staying with StarCraft until they release StarCraft 2 in the same engine.

:D :t

[DocEvi1]

Medieval Total war is coming out soon - should be good.

Commandos and commandos are good, hard strat games - worth the money.

Stefan

[gibsinep]

The Cossacks games are good, kinda a Age of Empires clone but there are muskets and cannons, plus pikemen and cavalry. Time period is somthing like 1500-1700 or a little higher than 1700

Age of empires games- they started it all in RTS genre very good games imo.

CCgames- are really good I like them future units along with normal real life stuff.

Stronghold( next one is coming out soon Stronghold crusader) is also a good one; it takes place in the middle ages. Castles and such.

Real war- not known very well, it is ok modern day units and stuff.

Sudden Strike 2- a lot like the 1st one a great RTS.

Also Warcraft 3 is very good just takes a while to get used to the camera and 3dish look.

^^^^^^ All of those are rts^^^
:t

[NJEnviroguy]

Thanks for the responses. I think this is probably one of the hardest genres to get games for. I think I will try out the starcraft, sudden strike and work from there.

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by gibsinep
Age of empires games- they started it all in RTS genre very good games imo.


Excuse me, but that's not right

the very 1st and coolest RTS was DUNE 2 by Westwood studio

i beat that game fair and square in every house and every possible way.

That was before i learned there were such things called CHEATS and TRAINERS :p

and that game Dates back to Pre Internet
when modem 14.4 and 28.8 BBS was at its prime.

then it ware replaced by


WARCRAFT 1 and then WARCRAFT 2

after WarCraft 2 thousands and thousands more of Clones came after that.

and they all sucked until... C&C Command and Conquer, and C&C 2 and .... well then more crappy clones,
yeah even Age of Empire 1 was a clone.

well then we have todays games, which are more clones but on a 3D engine.

:t

[gibsinep]

AllGamer- ok ok I know but think about it that is what really brough the gaming world to know RTS.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I had duen 2 on my Amiga waaay back -- one of the few other RTS's ive actually liked.. :eek:

--Jakk:t

[NJEnviroguy]

Ahhh, Amiga...for some reason I think strategy games are de-evolving with age. I think we should all chuck our GeForce4's and go back to the ole reading and writing games....oh God.

[user0209]

Make sure you don't consider starcraft, warcraft 3 as clones.

Strarcraft is extremely innovative and balanced, filled with strategies. WC3 is the first game to combine role playing and RTS.

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by gibsinep
AllGamer- ok ok I know but think about it that is what really brough the gaming world to know RTS.

WarCraft and WarCraft 2

are the Titles that did that. :D

that's why M$ hired that guy to make Age Of Empire to make a game just like that so the can share the fame. :t

the guy got so pissed at M$ that he jumped boat to Sierra and made Empire Earth

which was what he had originally planed.

but cuz M$ or Bill Gay, was too much in a hurry to release the game to CATCH a share of the RTS fame.

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by user0209
Make sure you don't consider starcraft, warcraft 3 as clones.

Strarcraft is extremely innovative and balanced, filled with strategies. WC3 is the first game to combine role playing and RTS.

You are Correct

well to start with, all these strategical titles

WarCraft
WarCraft 2
StarCraft
StarCraft BroodWar
WarCraft 3

all these are from the same Blizzard company (they make the best games ever)

so although StarCraft is a clone in genre it's on its own a game of its class, cuz even after all these years there's a HUGE and i mean a huge fan base playing it cuz of it's never endless maps etc etc...

the only ever successful game due its Map Editor.

then now the recent WC3 as you said it's a genre of its own also cuz of the RTS + RPG mix, Mixed very good i must say.

and they applied the same success of the Map Tool, which is already taking its share of fans.

WC3 is not my favorite game cuz is not a Sci Fi theme, it's a good game just not my style. :D

by the way finished it already

can't wait for the SC2 on the same engine.

after seeing the preview at the end of the game, it just keeps me drwoooling :D

[gibsinep]

AllGamer- I am positive if you were to take an online poll you would see many more people saying AOE is what started it for them.

( not a poll with above average gamers ect)

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Got to agree to some extent with gib, this is not to take away from the --craft games, as they are amongst the top rated in that (cr@p) genre. However AOE was probably the first widespread mass market appealing PC only strategy... of course the C&C games were the first to bring RTS truly to the masses spanning several platforms as they do, even proving popular on cosoles, previously unheard of for strategy games...

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

Of course.

there' 2 things in fame

Time line history as it really happen
and
Time line based on popular believe

i'm refering to the first, and you are refering to the 2nd )-|

[JuNacy]

Along with what everyone else has suggested, you should also check out Total Annihilation.

[AllGamer]

RTS time line in America (Asia had RTS way long long ago)

Dune 2 (DOS)
WarCraft (DOS)
C&C (DOS)
WarCraft 2 (DOS)
C&C expansions
WarCraft 2 expansions
C&C Red Alert (DOS+Win9x only)
Age Of Empire (Windows)
C&C Red Alert expanions
StarCraft (Windows)
C&C Red Alert 2 (Windows)
(a few other cheese ones during this period)
StarCraft expanions
(pile of C&C Red Alert 2 expansions)
AOE expansions

(then after this era, it came just waaaay too many clones)

then some more meaningful stuff finally after a few years, and all in Windows now.

Age of Empire 2
WarCraft 2 Battle.net edition (finally in Windows)
Empire Earth
Dune 3D (Emperor)
AOE 2 expansions
WarCraft 3

so as you can see why popular believe thinks AOE 1 is the most popular cuz it was for Windows, back then most people were scared of DOS, so when the first RTS for Windows came, new comers floaked to it.

but if you review old magazines prior to AOE, you'll see the big turn around for RTS to fame

is WarCraft
and WarCraft 2 just pumped it up.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Yeah TA ^^ is supposed to be VERY good (e ven for a strat game) and is availiable at a budget price (if yu can still find it), with a plethora of free addons and untis etc availiable over the net... so i hear...

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by JuNacy
Along with what everyone else has suggested, you should also check out Total Annihilation.

yeah TA is pretty good.
the most unique feature about TA
is that it doesn't use money to guide the game.

it uses the mineral recycle idea, pretty clever.

even up to now in days, 99% of the RTS is based on money, and other stuff. :rolleyes:

[gibsinep]

AllGamer I am not argueing what came out first.

[user0209]

hey allgamer,
Like you, Id on't like wc3 as much as I like starcraft. wc3 has too much melee (close-range combat). The fighting scenes aren't as explosive as starcraft. But since wc3 is the newest thing out there with so so so many features, it also reigns. Gosh, I never seen such beautiful landscapes as in WC3. Gorgeous. A big chunk of system power goes into running those sceneries. haha.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Yeah allgamer, gib and i werent denying that WC/SC were amongst the first RTS's, we were just saying they werent the first to introduce RTS to the masses... :eek:

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

well as i explained before
it was due Windoze and not really the game itself.
it just happends AOE was the first RTS on Windoze platform.

and the rest is self explanatory:rolleyes:

[Bigjakkstaffa]

A valid point, but it could be levelled at any popular game in a any genre from 1995' onward

However i still maintain that C&C was the first to get a wide spectrum of people interested in or playing cr@ppy strat games :p

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

yes although WarCraft was the one that won all the awards and stuff.

C&C was the real thing that massively addicted people into playing RTS

cuz like me, i like Sci Fi themes way more than medieval / mystical / fantasy themes.

:D

that's why even after like 6 years StarCraft is about the only RTS i play the most, cuz of the Millions of people that plays it

Dune 3D is good, but not enough people plays it online as StarCraft has.

same goes for Empire Earth. just not enough people playing those games.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

i like Sci Fi themes way more than medieval / mystical / fantasy themes.

AGREED!!

I hate bierdy weirdy -- even fantasy books...

Dungeons and Drangons Or Cyberpunk... Cyberpunk anyday thank you, part of the reason System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are the only 2 RPG's ive ever enjoyed :)

--Jakk:t

[Cpl_Squirrel]

Hehe
If anyone makes it all the way down here in the thread...

I assume you're (original poster) talking about the standard combat-type RTSs. If you would play an RTS that's not based on commanding armies, being a dictator in the game Tropico can be entertaining.

[gibsinep]

Well ok whatever this argument/conversation is way to confusing to follow,

I AGREE!!!

:p

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Desperados : Wanted Dead or Alive


...an enjoyable game in the commando's mould - none of that silly resource managment just combat strategy and cunning all the way. Also if your a fan of Sergio Leone films (liek myself) and gritty westerns in general, you'll love the general feel of the game and the excellent cutscenes...

Heh i reviewed that game for the local newspaper and got to keep it in return.. nice :r

--Jakk:t

[NJEnviroguy]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
Desperados : Wanted Dead or Alive


...an enjoyable game in the commando's mould - none of that silly resource managment just combat strategy and cunning all the way. Also if your a fan of Sergio Leone films (liek myself) and gritty westerns in general, you'll love the general feel of the game and the excellent cutscenes...

Heh i reviewed that game for the local newspaper and got to keep it in return.. nice :r

--Jakk:t

Whats a strategy game without worrying if you have enough resources to launch a major campaign, etc.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

...an entertaining one :p

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

no resources, large armies, in that case, you want this!!!

Total Annihilation

:D :t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

^^ Its an oldie but a goldie yes indeed -- and whatsmore its on budget... if you can still find it :(

--Jakk:t

[gibsinep]

Ta, yes avery good one. :t

[user0209]

I have that stupid TA game, never figured out how to play it.

This makes me so appreciate how much effort blizzard put into making their games a no-brainer to start. Everything is intuitive and playable right outa box

[gibsinep]

Ta is hard to play?

[user0209]

TA is hard to FIRST KNOW HOW to play without reading anything.

Once you know how, I don't think it's hard to play. Starcraft and Warcraft3 are best for lazy guys like me :)

[gibsinep]

Not one of those guys that loves to see a 200+ page manuel. :D

[what???]

I noticed little commentary about Shogun, and some negative comment saying Shogun was a spin off AOE.

That's wrong! Shogun: Total War does have a tech-tree that might seem vaguely like Warcraft or AOE, or any other Strategy game, especially to someone who never played Shogun. Total War really descended from Myth (No, not Myst).

The huge appeal of Shogun is the fight. In this it is much more like Bungie's Myth: the Fallen Lords (and Myth 2), Myth was perhaps the most realistic physics, small group combat games ever, on full 3D terrain, with realistic combat, and workable formations - It is still played avidly online 4+ years after it came out.

Further, Shogun as well as Medieval are very realistic, real-time *combat simulators* with THOUSANDS of soldiers (about 1800 in Shogun, and 25,000 in Medieval) all at once on the same screen/map/battle in realistic terrain (TALL mountains, plains, rice paddies, rivers with dangerous river crossings, etc.). Each battle map for Total War is as at least as big as the entire game was with AOE or ****craft I, II.

On the "strategy side" Total War boasts training generals, having heirs, avoiding rebellions (and putting them down by force if they occur) the reality of assinations, espionage, counter espionage, treaties, diplomacy, foreign powers, and much, much more, play Shogun. If you want even more than this, try Medieval, it just came out 3 days ago.

Browse the TOTALWAR sites for your own opinions:

http://www.totalwar.org
http://www.totalwar.com

Perhaps you will find the kids games lots of fun, afterall some people watch the cartoon network into adulthood, and seriously, there's nothing wrong with that. I just want readers to know that there's a whole world beyond what they are seeing in this thread.

In my totally bigoted opinion, Warcraft 1,2 and Starcraft are Fisher-Pricey. While AOE, AOK, and AOM are frantic rush 'till they drop erector sets with dueling rockem-sockem robots. C&C, Dune, and Westwood's games are the best of the "kids"bunch in a way, but in the end, G.I. Joe on drugs. In all these strategy games, there is a teeny limit to the number of men you can produce and field in battle (AOE is like 40 max, Warcraft 3 is I think 90 - although I could be wrong). Have you ever heard of a real battle involving 40 guys on each side?

The soldiers move in "blobs" of guys, nothing like formations, they don't fight in coordination at all, just mindlessly attack what you click, don't use realistic weapons, don't use weapons realistically, don't have fatigue, moral, limited ammunition, the influence of generals, commanders, etc. and have *terrible* pathing (choosing routes to walk). Warcraft 3, just released, maybe better than all of these put together, but it's just about 4 years behind the curve.

Bah! Sounds like Richard Scarry's new book : Busy, Busy, Battle.

Shogun is a superbly crafted war/tactics/strategy simulation. The thousands upon thousands of soldiers move, sweat, fight, run away, run out of ammuntion, and most likely die like real soldiers. As troops fight, survive and win, they gain skill, honor, and moral for the next battle. Powerful generals can increase the moral and performance of troops, as well as improving with experience (like real, great generals do).

Archers firing from a hill side down onto enemies, shoot farther and deadlier. The formation they are in affects the thickness of the hail of arrows (yes thousands of archers shootíng each of their own arrows - it's horribly beautiful). Rain hampers the "lift"of arrows, snow snuffs out the wick of a musket, trees knock arrows off course, troops often shoot and kill their own friends by accident, and the smoke, baby. I have had battle fields totally obscured, clouded in a thick, gunpowder soup.

Horse units are exhaused quickly by forced movement in heavy snowfall, and the march to the enemies position(s) alone across the battlefield in cold winter conditions will pretty much toss the battle (that's why armies used to only fight in spring and early summer).

If you want just kid games, play ***craft, AOE, AOK, AOM, Cossacks, C&C, etc.

If you want real, Total War (c) (TM) on 3D terrain with thousands of realistic warriors at one time, all moving under your orders. All of this in real battlefields with all the seasons, rain, shine, snow, fog, haze, heat, wind, etc. -- provided you are man enough, Get Total War.

After a huge battle with thousands of troops (several hours of straight gaming) you will be as exhausted (and exhaulted) as your men.

You can get Shogun at Amazon for $15 and Medieval for $40 at any game store.

Alternatively, you can download the FREE MEDIEVAL DEMO (235MB) at:

http://download.com.com/3000-2119-10136602.html?tag=lst-0-3

[Cpl_Squirrel]

Attachment: mtw04.jpg
Oh man, that lemon-lime army is in trouble.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Indeed having Played Shogun once, it is different from any other RTS i am yet to play... but like the rest of em -- its still boring :p

--Jakk:t

[gibsinep]

I also have Total war but have one problem with it the units when moving altogether look terrible, one gaint blob. It is ok though.

Kinda like Lords of the Realm 2 with the whole territory holding ect. But nothing can ever compare to the Lords of the Realm 2.

[NJEnviroguy]

Originally posted by Cpl_Squirrel

Oh man, that lemon-lime army is in trouble.

LOL, I didn't even see them the first time I opened the picture. :p

[AllGamer]

i've played Shogun before, yes it's cool and real, etc, etc..

but the problem with those games is that they are just too real

when a game is too real, it ruins the fun

when you are bored, you want crazy insane non stop action, and pounding wars, and big explosions, with nice FX of lazers and with the Subwoofer as high as they can go to really give you a good sonic massage, exteremely relaxing
:D

with medieval themed games, you can't get that kind of pounding and explosions that can literally break your windows if your subs are set too high
:p

i like to play in the office late past midnite, no one to complain about, cuz everybody is at home sleeping ;)

anways Shogun is cool, if Blizzard can make StarCraft 2 just like that it'll be awesome.

But i still like the same old same old instant action and pounding, not having to take forever trainging the guys, gaining morale etc, etc... then there's no fun.

real life is too busy already, at most a day you get a decent 15 min to 30 min game, before a phone call, or some one, or something else takes your time off again. :rolleyes:

[Sark]

AOE games are not very good. Very unoriginal. And the fact that an expansion had to made to solve the annoying replant your farm every 10 seconds problem in AOE2 is just plain stupid. The graphics in AOE series are dull and boring, and the units turn so choppily. Starcraft is much better. If you are looking for a TBS games, buy anything that has Civilization or Alpha Centuari tacked on its box:)

[Bigjakkstaffa]

game is too real, it ruins the fun

in my experience FUN RTS's are about as rare as rocking horse cr@p....

--Jakk:t