bad benchmark/fps with a gainward 4200 128mb...

[JackLvn]

First off here are my system specs(need anything else please ask)

AMD T-bird 1.33
ASUS A7A266 Motherboard
30 gig maxtor harddrive
Two 256 sticks of 2100 DDR Ram
Gainward Geforce4 Ti 4200 128mb
Windows XP Pro


Okay, I just installed the new card yesterday, but my fps/benchmark was almost the same as my old geforce2 gts(5500 on benchmark)

I just reformatted my computer 2 mins ago, is there any place(or does anyone know) a step by step guide for drivers, bios tweaking, registery tweaking, or anything like that I can use to give me benchmarking where it should be(8000ish un-oc'ed or so im told)

Please help :) and thanks, really pissed that I just might have wasted 180 bucks(shipping and tax included)

[grimfandango]

HI and welcome to sysopt.!
:)


First disable FSAA.
set your PCI texture memory size to atleast 20mb.
In your bios set your AGP texture memory to half your system ram.
Also download the latest drivers www.nvidia.com



what benchmark are you using?

[JackLvn]

3dmark 2001 pro se, as for disabling FSAA where do I do that?

And should I do those things in that exact order?

[DocEvi1]

it is in the option - FSAA = full screen anti aliasing.

Stefan

[grimfandango]

FSAA full screen anti aliasing...
ITS an option in the display settings, advanced...


you DONT have to do it in an Order..




:)

[JackLvn]

Did all that and pretty much nothing changed...here is what I got:



Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
DirectX Version 8.1

Mobo Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer INC.
Mobo Model A7A266
AGP Rates (Current/Available) 4x / 1x 2x 4x

CPU AMD Athlon(tm) Processor 1345 MHz
FSB 133 MHz
Memory 512 MB

Graphics Chipset NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200
Driver Name NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200
Driver Version 6.13.10.3082
Video Memory 128 MB

Program Version 3DMark2001 SE
Resolution 1024x768 32bit
Texture Format Compressed
FSAA Disabled
Z-Buffer Depth 24bit
Frame Buffer Double
Rendering Pipeline D3D Pure Hardware T&L





3DMark Score 5979 3D marks

Game 1 Car Chase - Low Detail 90.6 FPS
Game 1 Car Chase - High Detail 33.7 FPS
Game 2 Dragothic - Low Detail 107.6 FPS
Game 2 Dragothic - High Detail 58.7 FPS
Game 3 Lobby - Low Detail 89.9 FPS
Game 3 Lobby - High Detail 41.8 FPS
Game 4 Nature 20.8 FPS

Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 811.7 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 1851.5 MTexels/s

High Polygon Count (1 light) 21.2 MTriangels/s
High Polygon Count (8 lights) 10.4 MTriangels/s

Environment Bump Mapping 85.0 FPS
DOT3 Bump Mapping 105.4 FPS

Vertex Shader 12.1 FPS
Pixel Shader 70.1 FPS
Advanced Pixel Shader 38.8 FPS

Point Sprite 22.7 MSprites/s


What can I do to make it better?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Make sure PCI texture memory is set at 63mb for Direct 3d, for some unfathomed reason that holds back my MSI ti4200 if set any lower... :confused:

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

It is set to 63, anything else?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

You got Ansiotropic filtering or Vsync enabled?

If so disable em... apart from that :confused:

Are you running each bench after a fresh restart?? If not try that...

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

Both disabled and yes.
Is there anything else I can do? Change settings in the bios? Download new software? Change reg settings? Change OS? ANYTHING....I am getting reallllly desperate because I just wasted money on a card that doesn't even work how it is supposed to.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

What drivers you packin' ?

If its the manufacturers set loose em and get hold of the latest unified drivers from www.nvidia.com, also have you got the appropriate mobo and AGP port drivers for your motherboard?

And if the card wasnt doing what it was supposed to - you'd be sat at a blank screen - dont be so quik to blame the hardware...

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

I wasn't blaming the hardware, but it isn't working correctly because of something in my settings I am thinking.

I am using the newest drivers, 30.82, and how do I check the mobo and AGP port drivers?

If you haven't noticed, I don't know much about computers besides being able to put them together and play games.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

If you haven't noticed, I don't know much about computers besides being able to put them together and play games.

yeah i had noticed :rolleyes:

:p

As regards mobo drivers. Take this example, If your running a motherboard that uses a VIA chipset for example, you will need to download the VIA 4 in 1 chipset drivers and the VIA Agp Driver, otherwise system performance will be severely hindered...

Pop back and tell us the name of your mobo...

Anyways - im off to watch the telly, all the good stuff starts around 1 AM around here so im off for my daily dose :x

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

I am using a ASUS A7A 266... This one:

ATX, 266MHz FSB, 3x SDR-DIMM/2x DDR-DIMM, 5x PCI, 1x AMR, 6 USB Ports.

[JackLvn]

Anyone have any ideas? Is there some place where there is a setting to uncap something or what not?

Do I have to install something else? New bios?

Any help is good help :)

[NDD]

Install these (ftp://ftp.aliusa.com/driver/agp_1.90_multi.zip) ALi M1647 Northbridge drivers.
Should do the job.

[JackLvn]

Brought it up to 6234, anything else I could do? :)

[Bizkitkid2001]

Get the latest ALi drivers for your mobo here (http://www.ali.com.tw/) :t


oops, sorry ND didn't see your post:(

Maybe your BIOS doesn't support the newer GeForce 4. Maybe you might have to get the latest BIOS for your board.

[JackLvn]

okay lemme try that...will let you know how it works out in a bit

[JackLvn]

Anyone know how to flash the bios with windows xp?

[x51out]

Ok, now hold on there and pull yer pants up for a minute. All these tweaks are fine and dandy and should be done most likely, but disable FSAA?? Disable anisotropic filtering?? Disable this and that and what the heck did you spend $180 on a GF4-4200 for? Just to bench better than your old GTS?? No offense, but that is bonkers. Oh, and btw:http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1650 , I thought of particular interest the part about the GF4 line of cards needing faster CPU's to feed them data. How does it go? Your system will only EVER be as fast as the slowest component? Yeah, mine is the HDD, oh well...)-| ...:t

[NDD]

True, true ...

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Yeah i forgot about that - ti4200 cards are best suited to around 1.4ghz processor speeds, anything lower WILL bottleneck the cards performance although my 1.33 would get well over 8000 and at 1.4ghz was marginally faster, so his scores on a 1.33 shouldnt be THAT low , and btw i run SDRAM :eek:, so on DDR he should be scoring even HIGHER...

--Jakk:t

[DocEvi1]

jakk you have you your card overclocked...

You should be scoring in the 8k's anyway.

When you installed your card, did you take the old drivers off first. I know they are both GF cards, but it may make a difference.

Stefan

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Yeah - you should remove the original drivers, but he said he has reformatted since installing the new card so that shouldnt be an issue...

Stefan i was hitting 8500 un o/c'ed, with RAM ONLY overclocked i was hitting 8900+, therefore he shoudl be pushing 8000 regardless...

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Oh and while im here, pop into the BIOPS and make sure you have AGP 4x enabled, sideband addressing if possible, and set the AGP appature size to say 64mb...

Maybe you got some setting in the BIOS holding you back -- although i doubt it...

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

Why set appature size so low? I will try it though...

[JackLvn]

Didn't see sidebande adressing, where would it be located?

Set everything else, and oc'ed it.

http://service.madonion.com/servlet/Index?pageid=/orb/projectdetails&projectType=6&projectId=4286923

6033

Got a worse score then yesterday :(

[Bigjakkstaffa]

If SBA aint in the BIOS you probably dont support it.

If you got Rivatuner make alist of all of your settings under the D3D/ DX tab and post em here, im starting to run outta ideas...

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

Here is the customize system settings tab:


Overclocking:

enable driver level hardware overclocking unchecked

core lock 250/256.5

memory clock 446/499.5

apply overclocking at windows startup is grayed out

restore clock frequencies after suspended mode unchecked.

Compatibility:

command buffer location = Strict AGP(grayed out though)

enable agp 4x tranfer rate unchecked but grayed out

enable agp sideband adressing unchecked but grayed out

enable agp 2x transfer rate unchecked but grayed out

enable motherboard chipset compatibility mode unchecked

AGP:

enable accelerated graphics port checked

AGP transfer rate = deteremined by driver(grayed out) 4x

agp sideband addressing = determinded by driver(grayed out) on

agp fastwrites = determined by driver(grayed out) off


Overylay:

zooming area = none

the rest is grayed out.






Okay here is the D3D tab:

Mimapping:

1.3

Enable user mipmaps checked

everything else is grayed out

Depth buffering:

Enable 24-bit z-buffer checked

z-buffer validation method grayed out.

ENabled w-buffer checked

everything else grayed out.

LMA:

Enable lossless z-buffer compression checked

everything else grayed out.

Blitting:

Nothing checked

VSync:


Syncronization with vertical retrace = Auto

Prerender limit = 3

Textures:

texture format settings = for Dx7
(everything checked but Enable FOURCC nvds/nvt0..nvt5/nvs0..nvs5 textures and enable FOURCC nvhs/nvhu textures)

for dx8 everything is checked

Amount of system memory for pci textures(mb) = 0

Degree of anisotropy = determined by direct3d application

Compatilbility:

Tex origin adjustment = 3 but grayed out.

Enable table fog emulation checked.

Show nvidia log not checked.

Antialiasing:

Enable antialiasing checked.

Antialiasing method = none

Force antialiasing in all D3D applications checked.

Enable multisample masking not checked.



Anythign I can change to make it better?

Any more info you need?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Only thing i can think of is to uncheck the:

Force antialiasing in all D3D applications checked.

Also having PCI textures to 0 has bitten me before but the only way around this is to go into Display Settings>Settings>Advanced>gf 4 ti4200>additional pro.>D3D

then set the page back to defaults as Rtuner is a bit reluctant to let you change back to 63., If this doesnt work, delete rivatuner and reset all display settings to default from this control panel and then try through - if that does nothing reinstall Rtuner as the fault obviously doesnt lie there....

(Rtuner causes my benchmarks to drop by 3000-4000 marks when installed due to the way it handles PCI texture mem so i remove it when benching)

--Jakk:t

[NJEnviroguy]

I hate to be the newb with the "not so technical" response but:
I have the same card and when I first installed I tested with 3dmark and scored ~10-11K...installed the new nvidia drivers and went down to ~9 with 3dmark...
I was playing a couple games and noticed that some effects like smoke after explosions was a somewhat choppy.....so went to Expertool and started overclocking. I forget my settings, but scored ~5-6K on 3dmark with overclocking!!!! But, guess what, on the games the same effects that were choppy were as smooth as pi$$ warm butter. I've heard that 3dmark, although, great all around, could skew results. Just my 2c.

[JackLvn]

Jakk that thing made everything run realllly bad...tried to play neocron and it looked like I was playing in software mode.

Is there anything I can do to not hurt my visual effects, and keeping good speed?

There must be SOMETHING that is set wrong that will make it as fast and as good as it can be.

As for losing 3dmark scores with newer drivers, did your fps in games go down too?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

You may loose 20 or 30 marks with new drivers, but 2000 - 3000 erm - no... barking up the wong tree there methinks...

You mean changing the PCI texture memory made your games look cr@p, cant understand why...

It cant jave been anitaliasing as all that does is smooth out jagged lines.

My comment to you would be that you didnt buy this card purely for Benchmarkings sake, if your getting good performance in your everyday games and app's why cry because ONE bench isnt working properly - you can always use another benching util and see how it works out there...

but dont get disheartened in your new purchase just because one piece of software aint showing up right :)

--Jakk:t

(BTW are you running the SE version of 3d mark??)

[JackLvn]

Actually if you read the subject of the message I said bad benchmark/fps hehe.

If I had just bad benchmarking, and my fps was where it should be, I wouldnt care. But I am getting no improvements in fps since I installed the new card. (And I would think a geforce4 would be better then a geforce2.) And yes I am using 3dmark SE.

I reformatted again because I couldn't get the game to run uncrappy hehe.

Does anyone here have any other tips for me?

I am gunna try pulling the card out and putting it back in..maybe that will work.

Also a few weeks ago I had added another stick of 512 ddr, could that be why it isn't working correctly?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Doubt the memory would cause it, as youve formatted HDD cant be stagnant drivers interfering, both mobo and vid card drivers are up to date....

Have you tried looking up a new BIOS, check the dosumentation to see if anythings mentioned abiout gf 4 support, also worth a show would be any official (or otherwise) FAQ's for both your mobo and gfx card.

I really cant see the gf4 being at fault here as we have tried all of the settings under the sun and your running the same settings as im getting 9k with, with a similar system (albeit on DDR so you should be scoring higher)... thats all i can think of really for now...

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

BTW before i forget what suddenly flashed into my head - look for any BIOS tweak guides etc specific to your Mobo...

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

I will try looking for a guide. As for upgrading the bios I kind of tried that, but how do I do it with windows xp? I downloaded aflash and the upgrade file..now what?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

you dont do it in XP, you need to make a bootdisk and out all of the .bin files etc onto it then run the files from the dos prompt, when you put the floppy in and boot to the command prompt. Check the reasme of the flash files you dloaded for specifics, and try www.bootdisk.com for a bootdisk (look for a flash specific boot disk)

--Jakk:t

[lukangboy]

Do you have DMA enabled on your hard drive? It most likely is but worth a check.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Worth a check but unlikely to make a massive difference im afraid...

Im really quite stumped over this one, have you tried looking for patches or an FAQ / tweaks for your mobo yet and applied em?? Pop back and give us the benches then :)

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

I try look for some, but I am really not sure what I am looking for exactly, and I don't want to patch something that I don't need. I am thinking of trying to download a demo of quake3 and check out my fps in there, see if its just d3d that is being horrible for me.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Good idea, if all runs okay then taht would indicate the card is okay in Ogl mode, so dx is at fault, and id suggest reinstalling it. (which im suprised i havent suggested allready :x)

Also go Start>Run> DXDiag (enter) and have a poke around - see if theres anything in there...

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

Which dx should I reinstall? On the microsoft it shows 8.1 only being for 98, me and 2000.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

So did Open GL run okay then and DXdiag show errors??

XP comes with DX 8 preinstalled so thats why you cant find a download for it. Im not sure as i dont have much experience with XP, but try looking on the XP disc or in the XP directory for a DX setup .exe

--Jakk:t

[JackLvn]

DXdiag didn't show any errors that I could find... And OpenGL seems to be running how it should.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Well, i dont see the harm in reinstalling DX .... if you can worj out how... give it a go and see...

--Jakk:t

[grimfandango]

you might wana try a reinstall of windows..
Windows XP ships with DirectX 8.1

format you hard drive and install windows.


if this too does not sloveyour problem it must be your card.


just try the same card in another system.

:) :t

[JackLvn]

I have reformatted about 5 times, I guess I will try the card in another system..

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Yeah - although try and make the system as similar in specification to your as possible just for continuitys sake so we can compare results properly.

--Jakk:t

[grimfandango]

Originally posted by JackLvn
I have reformatted about 5 times, I guess I will try the card in another system..


also just try another card in your system...


you never know it might be your motherboard..!!



:t :)

[RamonGTP]

Its the motherboard... I had the same one paired with a Ti4400 and was never able to get a score higher than 7000 no matter how much I OCed the card or CPU... I believe the chipset on the A7A266 is just plain and simply SLOW... I upgraded to an EPoX 8K3A+ and now I can get 10K+ 3d mark points.

-Ramon

[JackLvn]

Thanks..I plan on buying some new stuff to go along with my card, a new cpu, motheboard, aluminum case,(power for the case if it doesnt come with it.)

Anyone have any recommendations on whats good? Want to spend 400-600 dollars.

Thanks again !

[grimfandango]

what kinda ofa cpu do you wana buy?

Intel or amd..


i would suggest an xp 2200+!!
this outperforms an intelat 2.5 in almost all benchmarks!


and whats bests is is under 150$!!
:)
just make sure you get good ddr ram with them

samsung ddr rams are real good ones..

[Dave Myers]

If I was going to spend $600....:D

Shuttle Small form factor shoebox $323.00
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=3&manufactory=1465&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1
Pentium4 2.0 GHz OEM $170.00
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=224&manufactory=1157&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1
256 mb PC 2700 DDR $80.07
http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Shuttle%2BShuttle+ Barebone+Systems&mfr=Shuttle&cat=RAM&model=SS51G+Series&submit=Go
Or just use your existing PC 2100 memory.

Total price= $573.07

That 2G proc will OC quite nicely too.:p

[JackLvn]

Probably gunna get xp 2200, already have 2 sticks of ddr 2100 that I will use(no point in them going to waste)

As for case I want it to be aluminum, mid-tower, at least 4 bays. Cooling is what I care most about, the more fan slots the better :)

Was thinking maybe this one..what do you guys thinks?

http://www.novapcs.com/cgi-bin/detail.cgi?sessionkey=r116931237425174047518937322 89&itemid=602&catid=138

And what is a great motherboard for xp 2200?

[OpK Chowdy]

i score low as well >:|. not quite as low as yours though :(

my setup:

1.4Ghz Tbird @ 1.53Ghz
256mb PC2700 Samsung DDR
30GB Seagate 5400rpm :mad: :) )-|
Soyo Dragon Lite
Visiontek Xtasy Geforce4ti4200 128MB

without overclocking i got to 8200 on 3dmark2k1se build330. and well when i overclocked from 250/444 to 275/550 (ti4400 speeds) my score only went up to 8885. that score doesn't change even if i overclock the core to 300mhz. i'm thinking my hard drive is holding me back. perhaps a defrag is in order?

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by OpK Chowdy
i score low as well >:|. not quite as low as yours though :(

my setup:

1.4Ghz Tbird @ 1.53Ghz
256mb PC2700 Samsung DDR
30GB Seagate 5400rpm :mad: :) )-|
Soyo Dragon Lite
Visiontek Xtasy Geforce4ti4200 128MB

without overclocking i got to 8200 on 3dmark2k1se build330. and well when i overclocked from 250/444 to 275/550 (ti4400 speeds) my score only went up to 8885. that score doesn't change even if i overclock the core to 300mhz. i'm thinking my hard drive is holding me back. perhaps a defrag is in order?

Your hard drive shouldn't have anything to do with your 3dmark score... The processor could be part of the reason, XP CPU's I believe score a lil better than tbirds do. Also try stuff like updating the motherboard drivers. Your score doesn't seem all that low, so little things like that could give you a little more of an edge.

-Ramon

[JackLvn]

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_182_869_4348^4378|120_1_XP,00.html


Out of those, what would be the best, 2nd best, 3rd best... for a xp 2200?(want to spend 100-200 on it, closer to 100 if possible)


Also how much power would I need for an xp 2200? 400watts enough?

[grimfandango]

Originally posted by JackLvn
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_182_869_4348^4378|120_1_XP,00.html


Out of those, what would be the best, 2nd best, 3rd best... for a xp 2200?(want to spend 100-200 on it, closer to 100 if possible)


Also how much power would I need for an xp 2200? 400watts enough?

the link does not work..!!!



ohh yeah a 400watts power supply is more than enough!!
just make sure you buy a good brand....!

:t

[JackLvn]

It was a link for all the different motherboards recommended by AMD for the xp2200...

Let me try again...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_756_3734^4348^4351,00.html