Messing around with a HDD setup with Win98SE and Win2K Pro, I added some items prepairing to give the system to my g-neice. The drive had at one time a SB 64 sound card, a USR modem, a zip drive and a CD rom drive as I had set it up in a test bed situation. Today I mounted the drive in a mid tower, added a zip, a Toshiba CD drive, a Yahama burner...a different USR modem and a different sound card. All went great for awhile, Win98 was givine me a hard time with the sound for awhile, but I got it. Then I went to Win2K..it found everything and installed it right off. Great...one of my lucky days...right?...WRONG!.
Next boot into 2K and now it has found something else to install, but does not name it. It has a huge yellow question mark and the name of the item it wants to install is named Cqm. WTF is that?. I started pulling stuff out of the case til I got to the sound card. Once that was out, it no longer wanted to install 'Cqm' (whatever in the heck that is.) Everything is reconnected back, and I don't have that Cqm thing...but the sound card was working...in Win2K device manager there was no yellow question or exclaimation marks at all...but there was a large question mark under unknown device. This one has got me. If Win2k dosn't know what it is attempting to install, how in the heck am I supposed to know?...
Anybody have a clue?...anybody seen such as this before?..
Tnx.
BipolarBill
08-24-2002, 01:51 AM
In Device Manager, click on View > By Connection. That might help.
I find that installing the latest chipset drivers helps tremenously, Bovon.
rangeral
08-24-2002, 02:30 AM
It seems to be a stereo enhancment run the soundcards driver see if you can satisfy it, might have to pick it out of one of the drivers cd folder or the chipset drivers may take care of it as mentioned.
Bovon
08-24-2002, 02:50 AM
Okedoke...I'll see what I can find for more recent drivers. I presume you mean sound card chipset drivers...or are you referring to the VIA motherboard chipset drivers?...
This is an older CT4520 Sound Blaster AWE 64 card...but should do her quite well...
Tnx...I'll let you know. Just would like to know what in the devil Cqm stands for...
BipolarBill
08-24-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Bovon
Okedoke...I'll see what I can find for more recent drivers. I presume you mean sound card chipset drivers...or are you referring to the VIA motherboard chipset drivers?...I meant the VIA drivers.
Bovon
08-24-2002, 01:17 PM
Ok Bill, I'll trust you on this. Two reasons I don't use VIA drivers is because of a problem way back when, and I couldn't uninstall them, so I had to format and start over...no real problem...just time. Later on, I read on a forum that when installing chipset drivers, get a version that came out not too long after the motherboard in question came out. The drivers several years later may not work very well. This sounds reasonable to me Bill...the drivers cover a lot of information and instructions in those chips. What happens when drivers are loaded for a chipset 2 years after the board was generally considered obsolete?.
From your perspective and knowledge, are the current drivers the same as the older ones, where in they still address the old chip set problems, and continue on today with the newer boards?..in other words, I guess what I am trying to ask is, VIA still uses the original drivers and just update them from time to time by adding data to the original ones...and whatever the board needs..new or old, it will be there.
Kinda hard to think about drivers being an all-in-one set. Simular to the Nvidia drivers you pointed me to recently, huh.
As ever..thanks for the input
BipolarBill
08-24-2002, 01:37 PM
From my perpsective, it wasn't the drivers that were a problem. It was the chipset.
If you're concerned, Bov, Ghost your system beforehand.
rangeral
08-24-2002, 05:39 PM
This is all I could find "Channel Quality Measurement", what mobo are you using the 503 maybe? Is your onboard sound enabled cqm would be a part of it. Usually the 4in1's are pretty good and backward compatable check what the site says, the onboard sound drivers are separate from the chipset drivers usually.
Bovon
08-24-2002, 08:09 PM
Okedoke Bill...I have been over at VIA reading the FAQs and other writeups and may have answered several of my Q's...
Like:
post from iitestus:
"my 2nd platform and my ide devices worked good with 4in1 4.32, 4.35, 4.37(4.38) and nero 5.578
win98se "
My version 1.1B board would not run PC133. I now have the later 1.2A version running, mayby this one will run the PC133?...kinda doubt it...same chipset..hmmmm
It also appears the VIA driver program now has an uninstalle feature...I don't believe it did in `98.
I'll get one of those earlier versions that this guy said he had good luck with. I can go up from there if needed.
Thanks for the input..always welcome, and also causes me to go read the details somewhere.
From my perpsective, it wasn't the drivers that were a problem. It was the chipset.
I had forgotten, you are pretty much an Intel fan aren't you?
I'm not so concerned about this one because its not my machine I am dealing with, and the possible loss of data. I hope to have this other machine setup and ready to go by Thursday with all of the bugs worked out and all software loaded. I would like to be in South Georgia by Friday morning, and then in South Florida by Monday to visit and deliver the machine. If I screw it up so bad now that I have to reload everything, I can see a few long nights ahead this comming week.
BTW, I was having some flaky things happen, (programs caused illigal operation, ect.) which reminded me of RAM problems, so I ran Sisoft Sandra...and guess what. 128 mb EDO (I forget the timing) but its running at 100 mhz fsb...I had used some PC100 CAS2 in it and had the timing in the bios set to Turbo...put that back to normal, and its just fime now. Went straight to Crucial last night and ordered 256 mb PC100 CAS2...so that should help a little.
Bovon
08-25-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by rangeral
This is all I could find "Channel Quality Measurement", what mobo are you using the 503 maybe? Is your onboard sound enabled cqm would be a part of it. Usually the 4in1's are pretty good and backward compatable check what the site says, the onboard sound drivers are separate from the chipset drivers usually.
Sorry Rangeral...I was in a hurry last night and didn't respond to this one from you. Yes, the mainboard is a 503+.
Last night I downloaded and installed the 4 in 1 drivers. I joined the VIA forum and posted under the FIC 'Arena' concerning which 4 in 1s to use. The tech guy indicated 4.35 for Win98 and 4.38 for Win2K. I asked if I should load each under the different OS's but did bot get a response back before I had to shut this machine down to use the monitor and keyboard, ect...I uninstalled the Matrox drivers and installed the 4.35 drivers under Win98. I rebooted into Win2K and uninstalled the Matrox drivers and installed the 4.38 drivers. All seemd good, so I shut down and replaced the video card with the Matrox G-200, went back to Win98 and reinstalled the Matrox drivers...rebooted into Win2K and did the same. Everything is looking good. I now put the sound card back in and booted into Win98 and it set right up as AWE 64...great!!. I then rebooted into Win2K and the same dang thing...it found and installed the sound system, but not as AWE 64. I didn't write down all of the names of what was 'installed'..something like wave sysnth ect plus ablut 5 other sound entries...and that dang Cqm was back. I worked on it til 4 AM and never got it to find anything it liked here on any of my sound CDs or other downloaded driver files for AWE 64 systems.
During the 'found new hardware' (or whatever it says) it tells me it wants a m??.inf file (sorry, I didn't write the name of the inf file down its looking for...I'll do that the next time I see it...but, thats what the hang up is...that inf file, and none of my Creative SB software has any inf file beginning with an 'm'.
I'll play around with it some more today...maybe just removing everything in Win2K device manager and rebooting..and see if that Cqm comes back. Its definately associated with the sound card, and possibly Win2K has attempted to install it as a different sound system than it actually is..Right now, that Cqm is sitting under the sound system in device manager with a yellow exclamation mark on it, and its properties say its drivers have not been loaded
Thoughts?..
BipolarBill
08-26-2002, 05:09 PM
I believe that you must use the correct Creative Setup routine for that and every Creative sound card, Bov. I don't know why, but it seems that no Windows versions has native drivers for any Creative PCI sound card.
What I would do is get the latest drivers from Creative, use the Setup routine to install and then manually change the drivers for the core components of the AWE64. The alternative drivers should be listed when you select them manually. The rest should follow as a matter of course.
Am I an Intel fan? Let's put it this way - Intel systems are much easier to set up and install. They rarely need driver updates too. If I was a nut about configuring PCs, the non-Intel chipsets would give me the challenge that I might like to have. If I was a normal person with a "life", Intel makes much more sense. ;)
AllGamer
08-26-2002, 05:19 PM
are we talking about an ISA AWE 64 or a PCI AWE 64 ??
ISA drivers for SB AWE is included with Win98 and above.
PCI, is true not even XP seems to install them properly even if they are included.
Bovon
08-26-2002, 10:44 PM
This gets stranger by the minute. The card is an ISA. It installed just fine under Win98Se...after I ran the setup program from the install setup download. Win2K installs the card (apparently in error, but the dang thing [sound] works...but, see the JPG screen shots below.
Win2K does not let me remove the installed components so that I can go thru a manual install from device manager...like we can from Win9x..highlight and remove. If there is a way to do this from Win2K...I have not discovered that yet.
A friend of mine who is very sharp discovered the following at Creative Labs web site. I looked and didn't find it.
"Announces CQM™ - Creative Quadratic Modulation - a new audio technology that delivers richer quality sound than the traditional FM music synthesis, and at a lower cost".......This is from Creative Labs web site....
I seriously doubt the CT 5420 ISA AWE 64 sound card I am attempting to install is this new (technology wise)
rangeral
08-26-2002, 10:46 PM
If the sound and everything else is working I'd forget about it being there, my intel modem seems to load an ethernet card when there isn't any in mine on XP chased it for awhile and said the heck with it doesn't bother anything until I throw the machine on the network then I'll worry about it.
Bovon
08-26-2002, 10:48 PM
Next image
Bovon
08-26-2002, 10:51 PM
Last image
Bovon
08-26-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by rangeral
If the sound and everything else is working I'd forget about it being there, my intel modem seems to load an ethernet card when there isn't any in mine on XP chased it for awhile and said the heck with it doesn't bother anything until I throw the machine on the network then I'll worry about it.
Yep, thats probably what I will have to wind up doing. I wouldn't care if the machine would be near by so I could get back into it if I had to...but South Florida (near NASA, Coco beach, is a bit far <grin>. I will probably leave here Friday AM early headed south...and none of the family in Florida is computer savvy...and I hate to give them something that ain't right, you know?..if it screws up, they will have to ups the thing back here.
BipolarBill
08-27-2002, 07:55 AM
I've never had any luck installing a 16-bit ISA sound card in Win2K. We must remember that Win2K is a true 32-bit OS and that it must run this card in emulation mode. That's going to eat resources if you can get it running right.
I would plan on a sound card upgrade, Bovon. I would also recommend retiring those ISA motherboards to strictly Win9x use. :(
Bovon
08-27-2002, 11:58 AM
I've never had any luck installing a 16-bit ISA sound card in Win2K. We must remember that Win2K is a true 32-bit OS and that it must run this card in emulation mode. That's going to eat resources if you can get it running right.
Hmmmm..thanks Bill, I didn't realize that. The only difference I was aware of was the Win2K is built on NT technology, (but I don't even have a good grasp on that either.) and some applications that run under Win9x will not run under Win2K (or any version of NT)
When you say it will "eat resources"...how so?..educate me a bit here if you can find a hammer big enough to pound it into this thick skull of mine. :)
I would plan on a sound card upgrade, Bovon. I would also recommend retiring those ISA motherboards to strictly Win9x use.
Thats pretty well what I am doing. When this deal came up about throwing something together for my g-neice...time was already short, sence I am headed that way for the Labor Day holidays and I need to deliver it, set it up and teach a computer illiterate family how to turn it on. Trying to cut time AND corners, I am using a 13 gb 7200 rpm drive I already had setup with the basics...except it had a dual boot system. I added a USR modem, and that set right up quickly in both OS's. The only other sound card I have as a spare was this CT4520 ISA so I put that in. Win98 installed it right away, but 2K set it up as you see in the screen shots. It wants WINNT.inf to install that Cqm....I do not have a copy of WINNT.inf here anywhere...and do not know where to go find it. It is not on my copy of the Win2K Pro install disk either.
BipolarBill
08-27-2002, 12:21 PM
Check for WINNT.INF in C:\WINNT\INF (must be unhidden) and in the i386 folder on the Win2K CD. It may also be in C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32.
Windows 9x can load both 16-bit and 32-bit software natively and efficiently. It was a good combined OS, but it compromised on stability. WinNT is a true 32-bit OS. Version 4.0 had a very good 16-bit protected mode for legacy apps and drivers, but once again it was a compromise and was not as stable as it could be. Win2K/XP gave up on 16-bit because those emulators are a strain on the OS. They can use some 16-bit apps, but not many.
When Win2K loads those drivers, it must isolate them from the rest of the system in a "virtual machine" which is like an operating system within an operating system. This attempt at protecting the OS and 32-bit apps from the 16-bit drivers costs memory and CPU cycles. It's just inefficient.
A good, obsolete 32-bit PCI sound card (any PCI sound card will do) costs between $15 and $25, Bov. Cut your losses.
Contrary to Bill i never had a problem with ISA cards, actually i love them, stable as ever.
but since you have your minds set, i wont bother changing them :rolleyes:
Bovon
08-27-2002, 01:53 PM
Thanks Allgamer, all options are open at present...but time is now at a priemum. I have the rest of today and until about noon Thursday to get it to a stopping point, load it (right or wrong) and get it in the truck...hit the road time will be about 4 am Friday.
Okedoke Bill...I understand better now, thanks. I have not fired up that computer yet today...fixing to right now...I have to use this monitor, keyboard ect...but, I have done a file-find search of the Win2K install CD using WINNT*. as a search term. I got back several winnt hits, but no INF files. I also have hidden files viewable...oh well...If I can't get it going, I'll leave it as is...with the Cqm not installed.
Bovon
08-27-2002, 05:38 PM
Okedoke... I am about ready to throw in the towel on this deal. Win2K flaked out today and wouldn't let me in, had an error block come up that said:
MSTask.exe Entry Point not found (on the active bar)
"The Procedure entry point RTLREL could not be located in the dynamic library NTDLL.DLL"
I had the option to click 'ok', then nothing else happened. I was finally forced to manually reboot, when arriving back to Win2K desktop, I got another error, but was able this time to reboot normally. Now, back into Windows without further errors, but all of my personal settings were gone. the application icons on the quick launch bar were gone. CloneCD was not 'registered' anymore, I had to type all that **** back in...I could't get into device manager until after another reboot. I don't have time for this, and I certainly don't want to give a flaky computer to my (mostly) computer illiterate family.
How do I get rid of 2K on the D:\ drive?..would it be as simple as formating the drive?...then disabling or deleting boot.ini in the C:\drive root?
How about all of the applications I have loaded into both OS's?...should I 'uninstall' them from 2K before I delete the OS? or will the applications continue to function under Win98 and never know Win2K is gone?..
Thanks anybody.
BipolarBill
08-27-2002, 05:46 PM
Boot from a Win9x startup disk, Bovon, and first SYS C:. Then format D: or delete the partition and expand C if D is NTFS.
Bovon
08-27-2002, 11:24 PM
Thanks for the help Bill and every body else that responded..
SysOpt is a great place for answers!
Ol'Tunzafun
08-29-2002, 02:05 PM
I don't think Creative released Win2K drivers for your sound card but the NT driver just might do the trick..
SysOpt.com
Copyright Internet.com Inc. All Rights Reserved.