rounder
08-22-2002, 11:30 PM
I am considering purchasing MS FP for a beginner approach to WP development.
Anyone for or against?
rounder
Anyone for or against?
rounder
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Frontpage...Would you recommend it?
Mutant_Donkey
08-23-2002, 02:49 AM
against. you wont learn design, you wont learn HTML. go with adobe go live or something similar.
DocEvi1
08-23-2002, 07:16 AM
MS FP, well the code it produces is pap (needs a lot of personal work in NotePad), it messes up embedded objects such as flash, java....but it is easy to work with if you know the Office Suite.
I personally use it for speed, there are better WYSIWYG editors about - Macromedia Dreamweaver being one - but I find them to complicated to do the simple stuff such as table layout, formating text.....When it comes to the more complicated stuff I use notepad, plain simple and doesn't mess anything up.
If you use FP right, you can learn HTML - I did, but you need to understand quite quickly what is good HTML and bad HTML so you can tidy the code up yourself. In fact maybe FP is perfect - it is so buggy that you will have to learn HTML to correct it's flaws :D
Stefan
I personally use it for speed, there are better WYSIWYG editors about - Macromedia Dreamweaver being one - but I find them to complicated to do the simple stuff such as table layout, formating text.....When it comes to the more complicated stuff I use notepad, plain simple and doesn't mess anything up.
If you use FP right, you can learn HTML - I did, but you need to understand quite quickly what is good HTML and bad HTML so you can tidy the code up yourself. In fact maybe FP is perfect - it is so buggy that you will have to learn HTML to correct it's flaws :D
Stefan
Baddog
08-23-2002, 07:27 AM
I use FP at work all the time, you can check it out at www.goodmantruck.com
Quandary
08-23-2002, 10:52 AM
Screw front-phage. Fire up TextPad (www.textpad.com, free download), grab the HTML manual (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/html40.pdf.gz) sit down and learn it. HTML is about the *easiest* language out there; don't be intimidatesd by it.
And for the love of whatever you hold sacred, please don't use frontpage.
- Quandary
And for the love of whatever you hold sacred, please don't use frontpage.
- Quandary
DocEvi1
08-23-2002, 12:22 PM
FP isn't that bad, just learn to cope with it's flaws and rectify the bad HTML it sometimes makes. It till make you a better HTML programmer as it takes you by the hand, but also requires you to fix some stuff.
Stefan
Stefan
Mutant_Donkey
08-23-2002, 01:35 PM
adobe go live. i did, without much html knowledge and results speak for themselves. http://www.mts.net/~thomas12
DocEvi1
08-23-2002, 05:01 PM
everyone is entitled to there opinon. Here's a good idea tho...download the trials and see what you think:
FP:
findin it now :D
Go!Live
http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jhtml#product=26
incidently I am slightly worried you are going to publish a 2mb file on thermonuclear design - hardly something you should be doing in a modern day world :rolleyes: and em, nice house :D
Stefan
FP:
findin it now :D
Go!Live
http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jhtml#product=26
incidently I am slightly worried you are going to publish a 2mb file on thermonuclear design - hardly something you should be doing in a modern day world :rolleyes: and em, nice house :D
Stefan
AllGamer
08-23-2002, 06:33 PM
To stick to the title and not deviate off like everybody here :rolleyes:
Yes FP is good, but ****
FP before FP XP were ok, but bad for formatting.
but the new FP XP is a real good one now. finally it WORKs the way it was suppose to work since they first released it :)
Well what can you expect?, it's MS software aftar all :D
Yes FP is good, but ****
FP before FP XP were ok, but bad for formatting.
but the new FP XP is a real good one now. finally it WORKs the way it was suppose to work since they first released it :)
Well what can you expect?, it's MS software aftar all :D
Mutant_Donkey
08-23-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by DocEvi1
everyone is entitled to there opinon. Here's a good idea tho...download the trials and see what you think:
FP:
findin it now :D
Go!Live
http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jhtml#product=26
incidently I am slightly worried you are going to publish a 2mb file on thermonuclear design - hardly something you should be doing in a modern day world :rolleyes: and em, nice house :D
Stefan
oh i did publish half of the file on thermonuclear weapons design. thought the world should know the truth. its available through the weapons category on my website
everyone is entitled to there opinon. Here's a good idea tho...download the trials and see what you think:
FP:
findin it now :D
Go!Live
http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jhtml#product=26
incidently I am slightly worried you are going to publish a 2mb file on thermonuclear design - hardly something you should be doing in a modern day world :rolleyes: and em, nice house :D
Stefan
oh i did publish half of the file on thermonuclear weapons design. thought the world should know the truth. its available through the weapons category on my website
Kurylo
08-23-2002, 09:28 PM
I don't like FP. Try 1stPage 2000 or CoffeeCup HTML Editor.
qball
08-23-2002, 10:32 PM
against, far better HTML editors out there...
I am considering purchasing MS FP for a beginner approach to WP development
Isn't, WP 'word processing'?
FP is an HTML 'wysiwyg' editor (poor one at that).
Did I just use 'wysiwyg'??? I DID and improperly!
FP is an HTML GUI editor (poor one at that).
Now HTML can be construed as word processing, but do you want to do:
WP development
Web/HTML development
?
I am considering purchasing MS FP for a beginner approach to WP development
Isn't, WP 'word processing'?
FP is an HTML 'wysiwyg' editor (poor one at that).
Did I just use 'wysiwyg'??? I DID and improperly!
FP is an HTML GUI editor (poor one at that).
Now HTML can be construed as word processing, but do you want to do:
WP development
Web/HTML development
?
rounder
08-26-2002, 04:59 PM
Web/HTML development
Everyone else got the idea.)-| )-| :confused:
Everyone else got the idea.)-| )-| :confused:
DocEvi1
08-26-2002, 05:35 PM
why does everyone pick on qball? He is probably the best person to ask general questions in this forum....
Stefan
Stefan
user0209
08-28-2002, 10:11 PM
Hi rounder,
Don't let others scare you away from starting your interest of publishing webpages without learning any code.
It is possible.
Front Page is a good program for that sort of approach. Dreamweaver is another one, and better too.
You just need to get self-teach books on those applications and follow steps by steps, most of the time precisely.
Here's the thing about that approach. Have you been to another country and need a language translator? Can that translator always translate everything you mean to say? Of course not. The only way to get your meaning across 100% the way you want is you do it yourself. Then, you have to learn the language. Frontpage, Dreamweaver are these translators - translating your meaning/input into HTML - a language WWW understands. They will do their best, but often time you'll think "that's not what I want"
Anyway, to publish a simple (not the cnn.com or microsoft.com) but neverthelss creative website, get Dreamweaver or Frontpage. Use them as u would with MS Word or Excel. You'll need books to learn which menus, options to do the things you want.
When yo're done creating a bunch of pages (no different than documents), you'll need a place on the World Wide Web to put them so anyone who has access to WWW and wishes to see them can see!!!
OK, there are services of renting the place as service of TV cable, Internet access. (Go with Earthlink.net) You'll contact someone to get an account, manual on how to move the pages/documents you created into the rented place; and you'll pay $$ monthly for the service/place. Moving the pages here is just a copy process of the files to a remote computer via a software called FTP (come with Frontpage and Dreamweaver). There are free services, but the providers will trash your place with tons of ads and conditions.
Anyway, that's the big picture, which is the only thing hard to grasp. The details are just steps to follow and EVERYONE (experienced or non-experienced) needs books, documents, help to do.
Cheer
Don't let others scare you away from starting your interest of publishing webpages without learning any code.
It is possible.
Front Page is a good program for that sort of approach. Dreamweaver is another one, and better too.
You just need to get self-teach books on those applications and follow steps by steps, most of the time precisely.
Here's the thing about that approach. Have you been to another country and need a language translator? Can that translator always translate everything you mean to say? Of course not. The only way to get your meaning across 100% the way you want is you do it yourself. Then, you have to learn the language. Frontpage, Dreamweaver are these translators - translating your meaning/input into HTML - a language WWW understands. They will do their best, but often time you'll think "that's not what I want"
Anyway, to publish a simple (not the cnn.com or microsoft.com) but neverthelss creative website, get Dreamweaver or Frontpage. Use them as u would with MS Word or Excel. You'll need books to learn which menus, options to do the things you want.
When yo're done creating a bunch of pages (no different than documents), you'll need a place on the World Wide Web to put them so anyone who has access to WWW and wishes to see them can see!!!
OK, there are services of renting the place as service of TV cable, Internet access. (Go with Earthlink.net) You'll contact someone to get an account, manual on how to move the pages/documents you created into the rented place; and you'll pay $$ monthly for the service/place. Moving the pages here is just a copy process of the files to a remote computer via a software called FTP (come with Frontpage and Dreamweaver). There are free services, but the providers will trash your place with tons of ads and conditions.
Anyway, that's the big picture, which is the only thing hard to grasp. The details are just steps to follow and EVERYONE (experienced or non-experienced) needs books, documents, help to do.
Cheer
qball
08-29-2002, 01:09 AM
I am considering purchasing MS FP for a beginner approach to WP development.
Web/HTML development
Everyone else got the idea
OHHH, obvious from question!
Don't let others scare you away from starting your interest of publishing webpages without learning any code.
If my answers scare you, no askey ???s?
"Be afraid, be very afraid"
Then, learn how it works.
ASK questions! and learn. If "others" scare you, guess you afraid.
If, one, wants to learn, then persevere, else fade way?
Or maybe good test to find out?
Web/HTML development
Everyone else got the idea
OHHH, obvious from question!
Don't let others scare you away from starting your interest of publishing webpages without learning any code.
If my answers scare you, no askey ???s?
"Be afraid, be very afraid"
Then, learn how it works.
ASK questions! and learn. If "others" scare you, guess you afraid.
If, one, wants to learn, then persevere, else fade way?
Or maybe good test to find out?
Gobi
09-02-2002, 06:19 AM
Oki.
I see we have a lot of different points of view
regarding this matter, and here is mine :)
First let me point out what crappy program FP is.
It s a wysiwyg editor that gives you NO control over
the actuall code. I can mention as an example
a webpage with ONLY writings in one-single colum
down the page. (No pictures, tables whatsoever).
The code generated by FP took 5 A4 pages when you
printed it. When I did the same work in Notepad,
i had a result of 1 A4 page. 99 % of the code was
gibberish and had no structure at all.
You say you want to start learning how to create
WP (guess it stands for WebPages), and you want
to know what you are doing? Then learn HTML from
scratch. Its easy, it gives results fast and its fun!
(Trust me, I have seen many people getting hocked
on coding. :) ).
Find some tutorials, like the ones at http://www.webmonkey.com
(under authoring), you can aslo search for "html tutorial" on the net, and fire up Notepad (or textpad, or another
plain texteditor (DONT use word or any MSOffice program. Same reason as the one not using FP). and code away.
If you need any help or advice, just send me a PM and I'll
be happy to help you.
My 2 cents.
Gobi.
I see we have a lot of different points of view
regarding this matter, and here is mine :)
First let me point out what crappy program FP is.
It s a wysiwyg editor that gives you NO control over
the actuall code. I can mention as an example
a webpage with ONLY writings in one-single colum
down the page. (No pictures, tables whatsoever).
The code generated by FP took 5 A4 pages when you
printed it. When I did the same work in Notepad,
i had a result of 1 A4 page. 99 % of the code was
gibberish and had no structure at all.
You say you want to start learning how to create
WP (guess it stands for WebPages), and you want
to know what you are doing? Then learn HTML from
scratch. Its easy, it gives results fast and its fun!
(Trust me, I have seen many people getting hocked
on coding. :) ).
Find some tutorials, like the ones at http://www.webmonkey.com
(under authoring), you can aslo search for "html tutorial" on the net, and fire up Notepad (or textpad, or another
plain texteditor (DONT use word or any MSOffice program. Same reason as the one not using FP). and code away.
If you need any help or advice, just send me a PM and I'll
be happy to help you.
My 2 cents.
Gobi.
bahama llama
09-02-2002, 07:23 PM
I haven't used Front Page in years but I did not like it. Bad coding and it also takes over your pages with a lot of proprietary tags that only work on Microsoft servers or in IE and they didn't warn you about which were standard html and which were microsoft extensions.
IF you have to use an editor I recommend Dreamweaver. It may take a little longer than frontpage to learn but it is vastly superior. The help files and tutorials are very good and helpful.
The best solution is to find a class on html from your local college or an online school and learn html and use dreamweaver for the constructio of your pages. When it comes time to fine tune your pages almost always this means rolling up your sleeves and fixing the code by hand. Don't be afraid by html as it is very easy to learn and it builds confidence since you really can hand code your first page within minutes of learning. ( a simple page but a page none the less!). This will build your confidence and make it easier and more enjoyable to create websites.:r
IF you have to use an editor I recommend Dreamweaver. It may take a little longer than frontpage to learn but it is vastly superior. The help files and tutorials are very good and helpful.
The best solution is to find a class on html from your local college or an online school and learn html and use dreamweaver for the constructio of your pages. When it comes time to fine tune your pages almost always this means rolling up your sleeves and fixing the code by hand. Don't be afraid by html as it is very easy to learn and it builds confidence since you really can hand code your first page within minutes of learning. ( a simple page but a page none the less!). This will build your confidence and make it easier and more enjoyable to create websites.:r
Kurylo
09-03-2002, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Gobi
First let me point out what crappy program FP is.
It s a wysiwyg editor that gives you NO control over
the actuall code. I can mention as an example
a webpage with ONLY writings in one-single colum
down the page. (No pictures, tables whatsoever).
The code generated by FP took 5 A4 pages when you
printed it. When I did the same work in Notepad,
i had a result of 1 A4 page. 99 % of the code was
gibberish and had no structure at all.
Hey you stole my words (no offence) ;) ;) ;)
First let me point out what crappy program FP is.
It s a wysiwyg editor that gives you NO control over
the actuall code. I can mention as an example
a webpage with ONLY writings in one-single colum
down the page. (No pictures, tables whatsoever).
The code generated by FP took 5 A4 pages when you
printed it. When I did the same work in Notepad,
i had a result of 1 A4 page. 99 % of the code was
gibberish and had no structure at all.
Hey you stole my words (no offence) ;) ;) ;)
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