D3D Vs OpenGL

[KraZy_SkitZy]

What is your favorite rendering API?
I'd like to see your input on each, what their strengths and/or weaknesses.

[AllGamer]

holy cow!!! sooo many Votes already?
but no replies?

[KraZy_SkitZy]

no kidding.....

Glide was a very unique API in my opinion, but unsuccesful cause of 3DFX's fall...... :(

[AllGamer]

well it's not really unsuccessful.
althought 3DFX has fallen, the rights for Glide and patents are still in the programmers hand, by 3DFX, as nVidia has posted on their Adquicision notices, they control 3DFX, but not Glide.

so if some one care to release those Glide, so other cards can use it it'll be awesome.

[uncle_jimbo]

OpenGL

[AllGamer]

wow, pretty tight race, so far. :D

by the way i'm a hard to the core die hard 3DFX Glide fan forever.

:t

[Optimus Prime]

OpenGL guys, D3D is cack, try playing H/L in it, the sky is MASHED, the corners look DESTROYED! :O D3D is not good, not good at all.

And the poll votes may have been tampered by the moderators. :rolleyes:

[The_Shafer]

Just pick whatever makes it look the best. Who cares what it is, so long as my game looks great! :)

The_Shafer@hotmail.com

The_Shafer :D

[AllGamer]

LOL :D
yup shafter is rite on this one

[snowfall]

I'm more of an opengl fan, but it still depends what makes the games looks best. i'll choose d3d if it means better graphics

[MalRic]

In my experience I get better graphics when using opengl

[DocEvi1]

doesn't OpenGL favour older cards better than D3D? From what BipolarBill says OpenGL runs all the latest games on his old GF2 Ultra GTS (?)

Can you make an D3D (i.e. GTA3) run in OpenGL mode? I aint to sure on that one - don't think you can.

Stefan

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Open GL simply because it makes my FPS's look that little bit better :).

Optimus, if the mods have been tampering with the poll as yu state they should grow up - it wasnt funny the first time and never will be - these are peoples opinions and its a serious if light hearted debate. You dont have the right to fiddle about, even if you are a mod or admin, someone has posed this question out of their own curiosity and interest and is seekign an answer. You have no right to distort the answer which he is seeking...:mad:

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

that's kinda Odd with every video card i've had including 3DFX itself, it always ran faster in D3D better than GLide, or OpenGL

[Bigjakkstaffa]

In my expo D3D always runs marginally faster, whilst OGL, especially in quake based games or FPS's looks marginally better

--Jakk:t

[KraZy_SkitZy]

I started this poll, and it doesn't look like it has been tampered with to me...

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Well thats good :)

...anyways - general consensus seems to be with OGl at the minute by quite a margin...

--Jakk:t

[AllGamer]

man.... i think we have serious lack of members in this forums... look at those votes.

it hasn't moved in ages...

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Theres the hardcore members, the casual members, and the stop by everytime i have a problem members ... i know - as i have operated in all three roles in my time. However last time i checked we had about 33,000 subscribed members, so were not doin too badly i guess :)

Still it would nice to see some of the "stop by everytime i have a problem members" increasing their contributions, but hey its up to them at the end of the day, the "hardcore" we have, such as BPB with 8000+ posts can surely keep the forums alive single handedly :)

--Jakk:t

[Sark]

I always liked Glide ( I still have a voodoo3 ) a lot but since 3dfx is defunct now, I would say OpenGL is the best. D3D can look terrible (cs in d3d is awful) to good (unreal tournament) but OpenGL always asures good quality and performance (in my experience), well theres my two cents worth:t

[bob05]

I like D3D, mainly because it runs better on my computer and half my games use it.:p

[KraZy_SkitZy]

I did some comparisons of my own and relized D3D sux for FPS games, I noticed alot of background and sky effects look so 2D, but in 3rd person games D3D isn't too shabby.
OpenGL is fairly balance out for gaming, and is good for games that requie a great framerate..

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by KraZy_SkitZy
I did some comparisons of my own and relized D3D sux for FPS games, I noticed alot of background and sky effects look so 2D, but in 3rd person games D3D isn't too shabby.
OpenGL is fairly balance out for gaming, and is good for games that requie a great framerate..

Finally somebody else that noticed that fast FPS is useless when it makes 3D Games looks like 2D, and yeah that looks specially true in D3D, less in OpenGL, and almost none in 3dFx GL

[KraZy_SkitZy]

D3D is based purely on 3D and smoothness thats it, no frills or gimicks, 2D textures, games like Dungeon Seige, have 2D textures, which look good, D3D is not that bad, just not meant for FPS like games like Undying have good looking 3D models and buildings, but things like the sky look like ****.

OpenGL is purely based on 3D and Textures, it is rare if you find any 2D anyhting in an OpenGL game, the closest thing to 2D you may see is like Alone in the Dark, with the Prerendered backgrounds.

Glide (3DFX) All of the above, no 2D (exception for prerendered backgrounds)

I actually love the S3 series of cards (besides the point I've only owned an S3 virage and Trio) I love the quality of the S3MeTaL, API, the textures and framerate rules in supporting games. (Thats why I'd like to get my hands on any Savage4 card)

PowerVR left nothing to be desired

Well.... Classs is dismissed for the time being.....

[KraZy_SkitZy]

I believe that D3D has alot more potential that people think, lmostly the onlly time D3D is used is in console ports (like The Thing, Resident Evil, MegaMan (megaman isn't top notch though RE was for its time) which D3D only Emulates the GRFX. Max had to be the best of the best along with UT2003 to use it. I was dissapointed with Undying cause of the very ugly 2d skies, it was a said day for D3D when that game hit my PC. :t

[$1500-P4 gamer]

Yea, the skies and ground were laim on Undying which was made by my fav author Clive Barker (Hell Raiser anyone!). Anyhow give it credit though the in game charictors were quit good and its not exactly a new game anymore either. I beat it!:D

[KraZy_SkitZy]

True, but yes I must admit the character grfx were good. :t

[Rugor]

I go with what looks best.

Generally that means D3D if Microsoft made it, OpenGL if they didn't.

I miss Glide though, it did look good.

[_Mystical_Night]

Open GL when it isnt buggy with plugins i use

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Mystical Night, why speak like yoda do you :confused:

--Jakk:t

[extreme_gamer]

lol, i'm an opengl person, even though i have had some previous problems with it, it's still good in my opinion...

speak like yoda, he does

[Beeblequix]

Anyone have some links in which these rendering techniques have been put to the test? You know, where they measure the quality of rendering and how many frames they get?

All I know is that I leave the rendering to the default of the game, and set my detonator drivers to give me all the eye candy I want. Then I'm happy. :)

ß

[Bronco2Guy]

GLIDE (R.I.P.) and live on...
I miss that API soo much, for its time it was the best!:cool: But with the late demise of 3Dfx its gone with the wind so to speak. Now-a-days its OpenGL all the way if I can't use I find a way to use it. If I can't find a way then only then will I use yet another microsoft product. F-That My 2 cents
Dan

[KraZy_SkitZy]

Originally posted by Bronco2Guy
GLIDE (R.I.P.) and live on...
I miss that API soo much, for its time it was the best!:cool: But with the late demise of 3Dfx its gone with the wind so to speak. Now-a-days its OpenGL all the way if I can't use I find a way to use it. If I can't find a way then only then will I use yet another microsoft product. F-That My 2 cents
Dan

Ya, Glide rules, I'd like to see NVidia bring it back or implement its feature (still not sayin I'm an NVidia fan, ATI al lthe way :cool: )

[Tech^salvager]

It's hard trying to run most the new games on a 16MB vanta with low fps and sluggish video. That is my best video card:eek: Now I've used D3D in all the games i can but sometimes they need openGL.

[Someone Stupid]

BQ: I've never seen one due to the many variables. Processor, bus/ram, OS, etc. There may be some out there though. On a slower processor with a G4 ti 4200 you can turn the eye candy all the way up and get maybe a few FPS in hits (mind you the clock is 308/553 OC'ed) on around a 1.4 ghz platform. You really start to see FPS drops with eye candy features on when you have a really strong processor to where the vid card actually becomes the bottleneck. Unless your running an Althon 16-1800+ most likely, you really aren't going to take much of a hit in my experience with eyecandy with nVidia cards. ATI's take lesser of hits due to the architecture of the chips, which is also why they don't have a unified architecture for drivers (which led to many of their earlier driver problems and even latter for the unexperienced). Though nVidia promises this will change with the G FX, we shall see. If you have a fast processor and need a card now, and want all the eyecandy you can get, get a Radeon 9700 Pro or whatnot, if you have a slower processor, or can deal with some of the eyecandy not being at a blistering high level, then your safe with a G4 ti. I can run mine on my Duron (@1400) with eyecandy at max running a gig of SDRAM on a G4 4200 ti(308/553 clocks) with 45 to 55 fps at 1280x1024 @ max details in most games. On my 2700, I take a good hit even with the Quadro 4 XGL 900 (it's not designed for games in the first place, but it uses the same drivers), so I can imagine how a consumer card would fare. So as of today and until the G FX is released and it's confirmed there isn't a huge hit and more of an ATI hit (which is minimal compared to nVidia on high speed processors) I'd have to say grab a top end Radeon if your impatient.

[dosmastr]

Originally posted by AllGamer
well it's not really unsuccessful.
althought 3DFX has fallen, the rights for Glide and patents are still in the programmers hand, by 3DFX, as nVidia has posted on their Adquicision notices, they control 3DFX, but not Glide.

so if some one care to release those Glide, so other cards can use it it'll be awesome.

can you go into more detail about that please, this is news to me.

I recall hearing rumors that the GFFX would be glide compatable, though now that it has been released (on paper anyway) and nothing has been said.... i doubt it..

feedback?

[dosmastr]

Originally posted by AllGamer
that's kinda Odd with every video card i've had including 3DFX itself, it always ran faster in D3D better than GLide, or OpenGL

ditto, i would speculate the reason to be that since most games are done in D3D, the drivers for D3D are most polished and get the most attention. ......and since the d3d drivers get the most care then programmers code more for d3d


i think the reason opengl does allow some games to run better on older hardware is because open gl's latest version isn't up to where D3D is, DX9 is beyond OGL when it comes to T&L.

fricken..... i don't know how to convey it in words......ok, this may be a bit off, if it is please tell me but they reason might be
in the way the drivers handle stuff, in D3D, drivers only expose what the hardware can do, and the software app has to offload the rest to the CPU, (and descide what to offload to cpu, eating more cycles) in OpenGL the driver coder must support everything in the latest spec, either by hardware, or in the drivers, so the driver coder has to write the drivers so that all the program has to do is give a command to the drivers and the driver does what it needs to, either by using cpu or gpu hardware.

[dosmastr]

and umm... as for me, i run an ati so i'm pretty much stuck on d3d, I don't know where they stand now, but i know a while back they were devoting a hullova lot more time to d3d driver development then to opengl drivers.

on my system (duron running 1075) the cpu clock IS the bottleneck so i always run hi-res and eye candy. but overall i notice games in d3d run noticibly faster then opengl..... well last time i checked anyway..... might have changed, ati has been making large strides with catalyst drivers.

[PacNW CE]

Back when HL was still relatively new, I was running it on a Voodoo3 in glide or OGL with no trouble. Any time I ran it is D3D it crashed. When Aquanox was the recource sucking game of the time, my R8500 couldn't process all the objects in the game properly. Granted, that was ATI specific, but none the less a D3D issue. My current rig with an 1800xp and a gf4 4400 occasionally chokes in Morrowind. Anyone else occasionally fall through floors?

By and large, games running on OGL have been more stable, less buggy, and in general more enjoyable than D3D games for me. I don't blame it on the API as much as I blame it on the lack of engine development that correctly uses D3D. Doom III is a Dx8 written game. After what the QIII engine did for a plethora of developers using OGL, I wouldn't be shocked to find D3D improving in the near future.

D

[AllGamer]

hmm....

man your computers has some serious Configuration problems, it seems like

with either the 8500 or 4400 you should have had no problem at all running any game

yet you just seems nothing but problem after problem with both DirectX and OpenGL

you should just format and start from a brand new OS and then dissable all the junk services that you don't use

:t

[PacNW CE]

Clarification.

My problems with D3D tend to occur when I am stressing my hardware. I play Morrowind @1152xwhatever with AF enabled and 2x AA. If I toned it down, It would run just fine albeit a bit jaggy and ugly. If I push a OGL game to hard, the game speed slows down. No funky artifacts, no flipping frames of reference, no wacky shiznit that I can't explain.

If I played games at more humane settings, I wouldn't have the problems I do. Since I am all about hitting that quality vs. performance curve at the max q, I tend to make issues for my games by expecting too much from them.

In a nutshell, when I push OGL things slow down. When I push D3D the wheels seem to fall off.

[rraehal]

I think I like OpenGL because it is open. The OS doesn't matter - you can still use OpenGL. Everyone keeps saying they want Linux to have better game support so OpenGL it is.

[Cyan]

I feel like open GL gives me a better performance/quality level. Though microsoft games run great in D3D, I find Open GL more stable and "purdy".:D

[AllGamer]

well all i can say is that:

OpenGL = Better graphics and effects, colors, and quality.

DirectX = pure speed, crappy colors, ok effects, and poor quality

this is not a Driver or Graphic Card issue

it's the format, and it's the same with any video card

Matrox, ATI, nVidia, etc

the Most noticeable gamess was during the big war between OpenGL vs DirectX 7

man that period, most games in DirectX 7 or lesser had really really crappy quality

but when you play the game in OpenGL is like WOAH my eyes are open now :p

but after Direct X 8.1 (not 8.0) Direct X is finally slowly delivering a little bit more quality into the graphics

like now the Mirror and or Water effects actually works vs 7.0 or 8.0

and with 9.0 awesome now the lighs and refrection actually does what it was suppose to since... well since Direct X tried to be a 3D engine :rolleyes: LOL :r

when way back then 3DFX GLide and then OpenGL was hable to handle just fine since long long time ago :rolleyes:


See MS is always Late on stuff, it always takes them forever to deliver what they "promise"

big example Windows OS any version :rolleyes:
also DirectX itself :p

[Someone Stupid]

PacNW CE: Yes, it's a common problem - has nothing to do with the video card. The game just doesn't know where the map is.

[KraZy_SkitZy]

Anyone find S3 MeTaL impressive? I did, in my opinion it looked incredible in Unreal Tournament :t

[dosmastr]

Originally posted by PacNW CE


By and large, games running on OGL have been more stable, less buggy, and in general more enjoyable than D3D games for me. I don't blame it on the API as much as I blame it on the lack of engine development that correctly uses D3D. Doom III is a Dx8 written game. After what the QIII engine did for a plethora of developers using OGL, I wouldn't be shocked to find D3D improving in the near future.

D

I totally agree, it is more what developers have done with the API, not the API itself.

I am very interested to see what people will make based on the DIII engine.

and I agree with "someone stupid" thats not a graphic card issue, its the program itself.

[PacNW CE]

Thanks.

It was kind of a retorical question, but thanks none the less.

[dosmastr]

i meant i look forward with anticipation for the games that will come from DIII's development.

i have phrasing problems lol

[fishybawb]

OGL - tends to look better and is much easier to code than DX :D

[morpheus kain]

I voted for glide outta a nostalgia kick from the days when my band new P200 and Monster3D could conquer all. S3metal was extremely impressive in Unreal Tournament and I was quite saddened when it didn't get the attention it deserved.

[cbh]

Can someone help me to find out whether Xelo GeForce 4 MX 440 128MB DDR (TV IN/OUT) is a good video card? I simply can't use it on my AMD 1.2GB Thunderbird Athlon PC. It'll just hang wherever I played an intensive game.

Please help me!!

:(

[AMD1014]

OGL all the way!!.It made my counter strike 10000000000x clearer than software

[Rugor]

A gf4mx 440 is at best an Ok video card.

I have no idea about Xelo, but on the whole they are an ok card for light gaming but not appropriate for a serious gamer. It's roughly equivalent to a Gf2GTS. Think of it as a Gf2mx Ultra and you'll have a good idea of what kind of card it is.

I would check your motherboard settings.

[Izdaari]

My favorite games all seem to be DirectX 8.1 or later. I wish they were OpenGL and available in a Linux version though -- then I could ditch Microsoft completely.

[cbh]

Originally posted by Rugor
A gf4mx 440 is at best an Ok video card.

I have no idea about Xelo, but on the whole they are an ok card for light gaming but not appropriate for a serious gamer. It's roughly equivalent to a Gf2GTS. Think of it as a Gf2mx Ultra and you'll have a good idea of what kind of card it is.

I would check your motherboard settings.

What?? I bought the damned card for $189 Singapore dollars. It's as same as my Hercules 3D Prophet II Ultra 64MB? No! This is not happening. ****!

:mad:

[Rugor]

It has about the same featureset as the Gf2 Ultra, possibly a bit better with things like Anti-Aliasing, but it's not a great leap forwards by any means.

A Gf4Ti is a worthwhile card, but not the Gf4mx.

If I'm accurate you spent about U$106 on that card, which is a lot for a Gf4MX. As a comparison I spent about U$180 on a Radeon 9500 Pro.

[cbh]

Darn! I am very disappointed. I bought the card at a high price and I can't use it.

What a waste of money!

[Witch-Talon]

OGL all da way. I growls whenever a game doesn't support OGL. I murder the game if it doesn't have at least D3D.

[cbh]

I can't believe it! I actually bought an 'OK' video card!

[AMD1014]

Hey cbh you should play in Dustdogs sometime

66.151.180.34

66.151.181.52

[AllGamer]

seems like there's no much light on the Open GL now

Direct 3D games and Direct X are going further and further away Technologically vs Open GL

:(

[Bigjakkstaffa]

As long as there is John Carmack though, there will always be an Open GL ;)

--Jakk:t