Need info from MCSE's

[TCLTJC]

Am not a techie but am looking into buying a certification training school. The offer A+,N+,CNA,MSP,MCSE 2000 and Cisco Router certification(forgot the initials). Are any of you with MCSE NT 4.0 certification going to upgrade to MCSE 2000 this year since your certification expires Dec. 31, 2001? Why or why not? Did you get your cert. in a classroom or via e-learning? If in a classroom what would be a fair price for the upgrade of for the entire MCSE 2000 certification? Would you get the upgrade in a classroom or on-line? What other courses would you like to take? Any other ideas or info you think would help me decide whether or not to go into this industry?? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Savant]

Well, I'm not a MCSE yet, but I'm an MCP, and quite frankly, I think the classes are a waste. I've passed two of the tests so far using only some old computers and a $40 set of books I got at half price books. I've also learned a good bit from reading books on linux and using slackware. As far as my plan, I have one more NT 4 test and then I plan to take the "accelerated 2000" exam to convert to 2000, I won't be taking classes for that either. I don't really mean to discourage you I suppose, but I wouldn't bother with courses. Granted you intend to sell them not take them though, so I don't know where that puts it...

[Commish]

I agree with Savant. Don't waste your money on the classes, the best way is to do it hands on, you can get evaluation software from MS, set up a small network and learn it that way, along with reputable book publishers. With Win2K, you'll definitely need some experience with it to pass the tests. A good place for cheap books, go here.

www.bookpool.com (http://www.bookpool.com)

[wyvrn]

Having the certifications can help you find a job, but experience is more important. It can become a frustating catch-22 trying to find a job without experience...

My thoughts:

I am glad I got the certs because with my experience I get paid ok and get bonuses based on my certification level. I would have to disagree with those who say do not take the classes. If your purpose is learning, then take the class. I learned more in my Win98 class than I did self-studying, because of the questions others asked and the abilities to work with other people in solving a problem. Setting a network up in your home can help also.

[This message has been edited by wyvrn (edited 02-07-2001).]

[SithLord075]

I would agree that actually going to a class would be a better choice, considering you're not a techie. Experimenting with a home LAN and reading up on some good material (Microsoft Press) would certainly help you pass your exams too. But beware of those half-$ss, fly-by-night schools popping up all over the country. They're the ones that claim you can start at 60k-70k per year with no experience. It's a ridiculous and false claim. Those who have had the training and the experience (atleast 4 years) see that kind of money.

[MadMatt]

Savant, Commish - I agree that for most people, classroom training for the NT4 MCSE track is (was) overkill. That's no longer true with Windows 2000. The exams are MUCH tougher. Gone are the days of multiple guess questions. The new exams are chock full of simulations and scenarios - you must actually know the OS to pass these tests. I've been studying for the 70-240 upgrade exam for about a month now - the Exam cram book is over 1000 pages! The test is 4 hours long and failing one part of it means you fail the whole thing. Ons shot is all you get. Don't be fooled, M$ is making sure that the new cert means something. Examcram rates most of the NT4 exams at a difficulty of 1. The 70-240 exam is rated a 4!

For a newbie, classroom training is a must for the new track. I think a home lab of 2-4 machines is also a necessity. That or LOTS of extra hours in the school lab.

[darkmallard]

I am an MCSE and MCP+I. Everyone has good, valid points on this subject. A good school is the key. Audit a few classes for free. If they don't let you do that, they aren't a good training center. Make certain the trainers are MCTs and that the center is a Microsoft Certified Training Center. The trainers should not be sitting in the front of the class just reading from the book. If they can't explain it without constantly referencing a book, they aren't very good either. Personally, I took the classes. I already had a good job as a Systems Analyst, but I took the classes because it forced me to learn, and the classes were very cheap in California at about $4000. Most places will charge about $10,000. That's how it is where I am now.

The unfortunate part was that there were so many people that would pass the tests, knowing little about the material and lacking any ability to apply it. Therefore, certification became a joke in the industry. A housewife with no grasp of the information would look just as equal as someone who knew the material like the back of his/her hand. That's changing with the 2000 certifications.

It is an excellent idea to get a couple cheap computers to practice with at home. The training centers will give you evaluation copies of Windows 2000 and any additional software you would need when you start each class. SithLord was correct, none of this guarantees a great paying job. The best thing regarding employment during and after your certification would be to try to get in touch with a good size, respectable technical/network staffing agency doing anything and everything with networks. Either doing simple deploying of computers into a network environment or just helping out however you can will gain you experience. You have to expose yourself to real-world situations. With any luck, you'll stick with one of them and it will turn into a great job. Once you have the experience, the certifications will give you something more to negotiate your salary with.


[This message has been edited by darkmallard (edited 02-07-2001).]

[Savant]

Yea, I forgot to mention that I have a considerable amount of computers that I connect together, try just about anything on, and then fix after I break them http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif got most possible combos of os to connect. (excluding SUN's and obviously Macs)