Looks like the thing to fear will be Microsoft's new anti-piracy features. It appears that the installer does not just read a disk drive serial number or NIC's MAC address but will log virtually all hardware, from the motherboard chipset to the amount of RAM installed, then it generates a unique "serial number" from the configuration which you send to Microsoft along with your personal information, then they send you a unique activation key that matches your hardware configuration.
When Steve Balmer recently said that Linux is their biggest threat going into 2001 perhaps he should have said that Microsoft is its own worst enemy.
P.S. sorry about the double post
[This message has been edited by CMonster (edited 01-17-2001).]
Roy
01-16-2001, 05:11 PM
After the narcissistic train wreck called "me", how does anyone think MicroSlug will get us to buy Whistler, let alone clone someone else's POS.
nunyadam
01-16-2001, 05:54 PM
i don't see an upgrade in my future,and i'm no fortune teller.
Richard_Cranium72
01-16-2001, 06:35 PM
dAM Roy, don't hold back.. Let it all out http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif
I agree with you 100%
60-75% of techies here HATE WinME, mine is slowly fading from poor to pitiful..
Where in the world did you come up with the most articulate term describing Windows ME as that one, lol-->>
Quote----
narcissistic train wreck called "me"----
good one there http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif
DrVette
socalgal
01-16-2001, 09:09 PM
Looks like 2000 will be the last WinANY on my machines!
When Steve Balmer recently said that Linux is their biggest threat going into 2001 perhaps he should have said that Microsoft is its own worst enemy.
How true that is. It's going to be fun watching their stock.
thekingofpain
01-16-2001, 09:34 PM
They are maybe making us suffer because we have failed to follow all the agreements we have vowed to "adhere to" when we purchased the license, or am I just guessing???
crockett
01-16-2001, 10:10 PM
The problem with WINME is it should have never been...after WIN98 the 9x series should have went to WIN2k...but too many people would have complained, they wanted backwards compatibility. This could not be done with WIN2k , so they made the abortion WINME. Just think if WIN2K was the replacement for WIN98 and if it had the software support of WIN98. I think people would be much happier after the initial shock of not being able to get a $40 - $80 upgrade.
King_Kooba_Fantastique
01-17-2001, 12:18 AM
Do you think this anti-piracy technolgy or technique, whatever you want to call it will be used by the industry ?...or would this be under copyright ?.
KKF.
CMonster
01-17-2001, 02:04 AM
I will be first to agree that software vendors have a right to get paid - I don't expect everything to be free. However, I do not think it unreasonable to install the same OS on multiple machines in my own house! Furthermore, this kind of anti-piracy scheme is intrusive and violates my right to privacy.
I once before bought some network training software online that was locked with "SoftLock" - so help me, if I even defragged my drive I had to call customer service for a new product ID -honest! If I resized a partition - I needed a new ID, format and reinstall - needed a new ID. I will never buy this kind of product again.
cyclone2
01-17-2001, 04:28 AM
I agree with you Cmonster, imagine how many phone calls Microsoft is going to get on that! {I believe they are going to farm out the responsibility of handing out codes}
As we all read these forums and see people can't install ME or 2000 or have problems installing them, how many cd's are going to end up as frisbees flying out a window or door http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif after 10 or 15 attempts and phone calls later- if they can get through
crockett
01-17-2001, 09:02 AM
I too agree that software companies need to be paid, but the crackers will always win, I mean comeon..someone will probably have a hack for it out within a week. But like what was mentioned above, if you partition your hard drive dose this mean you need two numbers?
I reformat my hard drive every few months, because I run a lot of programs and I want to keep it going smooth...but it would be very annoying if I had to call and wait on the phone for 30 mins to get a new id number every time. If this is the way they go, I'll probably look at different OS's ..Microsoft should really watch their steps, right now they are the main stream, but if they make it too difficult to use their software, then people will find other stuff....
[This message has been edited by crockett (edited 01-17-2001).]
Target
01-17-2001, 11:18 AM
I for one think this is a great thing <insert sarcasm>!
Until now, all I have really needed was a reason....... a reason to switch to BEOS or Linux, or something else as my OS of choice. Until now I was happy to stick with Microsoft products. Sure they were buggy at times, and gave me fits....but for the most part, I was satisfied enough to put up with the bloated code, random crashes, code inefficiency, and security issues for the sake of an OS that was pretty easy to use most of the time. Driver support was generally widespread, and 3rd party software was almost always written to work with it.
How many of us in the future will begin our OS discussions with a partial repeat of the phrase "Until Whistler"...........?
We've all seen and heard it before with other corporations. "I was an Intel supporter UNTIL they implemented a trackable serial number as part of the CPU core". "I never thought of running anything other than an Intel CPU in my machines UNTIL AMD released the Athlon". "I'll never purchase anything but 3dfx video cards UNTIL something better comes along". We have all heard similar quotes, and the list goes on and on. Evidently Microsoft is so arrogant they don't feel the need to listen, or they are too ignorant to understand the meaning of the message.
Whats my prediction about what people will say in the future if the Whistler OS stays its current course......? "Linux, BEOS, and others were operating systems for a select few, not readily accepted by the masses, UNTIL Microsoft released Whistler".
Do software developers and companies deserve to be paid for their efforts? I'm a firm believer that the answer is yes....as long as it is in line with the effort. Should I have to provide additional, often private, information in order to use a product I have already purchased? I don't believe so, especially if I have to continue to do so over the course of time with each change I make.
Microsoft reminds me a bit of a drug dealer. Sure they were concerned with piracy of their products, but as long as it didn't eat away too badly at their profits, it was accepted because it helped them to become the most widely used OS in the world..... They got the majority hooked and dependent, and have positioned themselves as the largest dealer/supplier. And much like the dealer, once you are in that position its much easier to call all the shots, set the prices, dictate rules for use, and demand whatever you wish.
The distinction that must be drawn however is that preference to an OS is nowhere near as powerful as an addiction. Preference allows us to make rational choices without feeling the "need" that an addict does. Preference allows us as consumers to be fickle, and trust me, we will be!! Don't believe it? Ask Intel why the Athlon has been a huge success for AMD. Ask 3dfx why they were outsold by NVIDIA based products, and then gobbled up by them.
My dearest Microsoft: If I had wanted you to know what my Hard Disk serial number is, don't you think I would have told you? If I wanted you to know I had switched my motherboard from an Intel 815 based chipset, to a VIA based board with an Athlon, I surely would have called or e-mailed you right? When I upgrade my Geforce to a Geforce II GTS, don't you think you will hear about it through the grapevine? When my secondary system dies, and I decide to harvest its DIMMS for use in my primary system, do you really want me to call you at 3am to give you a heads-up? Do you seriously believe I want to in order to continue to use your product??? Lets face it, even your software isn't THAT good!!!
Can you imagine another industry attempting to get away with such tactics? Should I be required to notify the Department of Motor Vehicles and Chevrolet Corp. the next time I decide to get new tires for my truck......just to make sure it will still start the following day? Do I really need a new VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) number just because I replaced the air filter?
I understand your motivation Microsoft, and I don't blame you for wanting to protect yourself against the losses you may incur from piracy........I had just hoped that the implementation of those efforts wouldn't have been as disappointing as the OS's you produce.
[This message has been edited by Target (edited 01-17-2001).]
Roy
01-17-2001, 01:53 PM
Am I correct in understanding that "Whistler" is a reference to "Whistle Blower"?
crockett
01-17-2001, 02:23 PM
lol yea I'm sure it will be... I guess when it's time 4 my next upgrade if MS really dose this ****. I'll be getting a UNIX os , or something other than a MS os.
tonym
01-17-2001, 05:01 PM
So if I put a new piece of hardware in my system do I void the EULA??
Whoever posted that "they just don't get it" is absolutely right.
They suffer from "I don't know, squared!!". They don't know that they don't know! This is dangerous because simply not knowing is ignorance, which can be cured with a dose of education/learning. Not knowing that you don't know is stupidity or ambivalence. Livin' the fat, dumb and happy life...usually at someone else's expense.
MS should concentrate (and put a ton of money into) producing and seeling a really bug free product that is easy to use and rock solid (highly compatible) during use. I know that I have this fantsasy in my small dream world, buy hey, everyone needs a diversion...
Tony
socalgal
01-17-2001, 10:19 PM
MS should concentrate (and put a ton of money into) producing and seeling a really bug free product
But that would have ruined their plot for world domination and end-user assimilation (not to mention making oodles of those lovely dollars selling upgrades to "improve" their buggy software) http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif
btw, Great post, Target! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-17-2001).]
Here is another article on the subject that gives a little more info.
I think you will see that Microsoft is well aware that people upgrade there systems. The article states that major changes will require a new key code but I really don't think you will need to do this in order to install a new drive or add a stick of RAM.
http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=19612
I also don't think that Microsoft will be the only ones doing this, if it works I think that many other companies will soon follow.
Dave
Roy
01-18-2001, 08:44 PM
Before 1954 when RIAA standardized phonograph recording, every company had its own rules.
Microsoft never will prevail but they'd go a long way by spearheading the drive for universal compatibility.
It won't happen though, because Billy would have to give up some ego and respect the importance of community.
jokostel
01-18-2001, 09:19 PM
microsoft can go bite the big one as far as im concerned.. i just am going to use win2k and winme... until they get their act together..... they aren't getting any more of my $$.
jokostel
King_Kooba_Fantastique
01-19-2001, 12:18 AM
Man seriously, down with Microflop, Linux and Unix type OS's will be dominating in the future...i hope !.
KKF.
King_Kooba_Fantastique
01-19-2001, 12:19 AM
Do you think if i write a polite letter to Billy Boy he'd change his mind ?.
http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif.
KKF.
Jeff7
01-19-2001, 11:55 AM
I should be getting my own Win98 SE CD soon. I think that'll be the last Microcrap OS I use. Should last me a while though, considering that I'm still using Win95c. By the time I need an OS upgrade, Linux should be much improved. Of course, by then, Microsoft will go to Rambus's level and start suing anything dealing with a computer.
NoCtrl
01-20-2001, 09:01 PM
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16223.html
RayH
01-21-2001, 12:27 AM
Go HERE (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16223.html) and make your own Whistler key!
[This message has been edited by RayH (edited 01-20-2001).]
King_Kooba_Fantastique
01-21-2001, 05:12 AM
This anti-piracy problem concerns end-users and not firms right ?..firms change hardware everyday...would they have to contact microflop 3-4 times a day for new keys ?
KKF.
dosmastr
02-05-2001, 07:46 PM
preach on brother,
look at the reputable companies, Dell shipped thier first pentium 4 HOME PC with windows 2000
why?? because an identcaly configured Compaq system (same chip, same chipset, same amount of ram) scored 100 points lower on sysmark.
All i can say about microsoft is, They succeded in making a NEAR idiot proof OS, I have a friend, who doesn't know what a CPU is, or RAM or desktop, even what the start menu is, but through blessed <note the sarcasm> microsoft, this person can communicate over AOL. So i give them credit for that.... ok my compliments/respect for them ends there, everytime my system crashes i curse microsoft's name, i had linux on this system and i suffered not a single crash not a one... but as you guys already heard, why did i go back to the Dork, dumb retard uhh i mean Dark side? Software support, anybody know when mech warrior 4 will be out for linux? probably never. netzero, juno, freei.net, <cringe> blue light, they all are windows programs. and only windows, maybe some will get around to Mac before apple Cpus break 1Ghz but don't bet on it. And Mac's have more home users then Linux, atleast that the last i heard.
AMD upset the wintel archetecture from one side, and it is my hope, as i'm sure it is also all of yours, that Linux or BEOS, upsets the other side, and destroys this monopoly, BTW why the heck is the gov going after microsoft about its browser, shouldn't they be looking at the fact that even before the browser battle started Microcrap had a strangle hold on the OS market?
Look at search.com, based on infoseek like probably more then half of the rest of the searches out there, a monopoly if you will.
at IMHO, its not even really that good
now look at google.com, yes its small and unnoticed by many, but just try to find something, maybe a bios update, or what the heck this strange model number on that no name NIC card is. Every time, every time i went out looking for something google.com found it.... my point?? linux is open source too, how about i just say it instead of use another dumb analigy and give you guys more eye strain
microsoft=infoseek
linux=google.com
eventually google will be noticed at hopefully take over the main stream (hopefully encourageing another group of people to do Even better)
And so will linux, and its stupid stupid $h*t like this that will make that day come even faster.
moving on, every gamer and power user i know tried ME, and then used that nicely done uninstall. (the uninstall of ME, to drop back to 98, IS the best darn part of the whole OS) and i'm not all that pleased with 98SE, but next to microsoft's little train wreck (i agree, nicely done on that phrase)
its the lesser of the two evils.
I have 2 last comments, and i have had these ever since microsoft ditched DOS (remember that OS that if it did crash you hardly ever had any problem that needed to be fixed with anything other then a simple reboot? )
Make An OS that will run win32 app's and I will install it (....so fast you will wonder if you finished BETA testing it before or after it was on my system)and play frizbee with the windows CD that had to be inserted every time you did something "here fido, see if you can snap it in half as you grab it out of the air"
or, like you guys said before, Make programs, comparible programs, to anything that runs on a microsoft OS, and users will follow you.
The only reason microsoft is where they are today is because they (cheated and) are the De facto Standard. If it was OS/2 vs windows all over again without any previous mindsets, i bet all our PC's would be "Designed for IBM OS/2 WARP" (or better yet, the OS would say "Designed for system X")
Well, sorry if i bored anyone,
if i ever go nuts i'll make sure to throw a rock penguin through one of microsoft's windows (pun?) After, of course, trespassing on MS property, with a Long Live Linux shirt on.
the fact is, other users look up to us, and if we keep telling them goto Linux of BEOS or any other superior OS, eventually, they will go. (gamers like myself unfortunatly being the last to switch of course heh)
Phrase of the day:
"windows 98SE lasted stress tests for 2 days, NT 4 lasted 1 week, 2000 hasn't crashed in the 2 months since it started--- And there are UNIX servers out there that have probably been running for 10 years and haven't crashed once"
dosmastr
02-05-2001, 07:58 PM
ok uhh..... nevermind... guess i lost track of how much i did write... sorry..
....i still like target's post more though
I read on tom's hardware that IBM in sinking another 300million into linux development. hopefully by the time microsoft drops another billion dollar piece of overpriced **** on us all, linux will be in a posistion to take over the market (or atleast for microcrash to build better software)
whatever happened to the anti-trust trial, last i heard the judge had demanded a break up, and microsoft was appealing it.
krusty the klown
02-06-2001, 12:22 AM
I don't know what you're all whining about!!!
...!
.....you mean you don't look foreward to reformatting the hard drive, re-installing Whistleblows, re-installing all the software, re-instating the backup files and spending ages on hold to a busy phone line to get the access key to your computer when you want to do a 10 minute job like upgrade a graphics card?????
...what's wrong with you all?
Oh, sorry! you've got better things to do with your time! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif
driverdude
02-06-2001, 07:03 AM
I submitted a post in apps and operating systems that might pertain to what is written here about "whistler"...is called interesting reading ...check it out
Ouch just found the same topic as "interesting reading" ,here posted by NoCtrl..sorry folks ....
Savant
02-07-2001, 01:52 AM
I had great fun a couple weeks ago went to a Microsoft exchange 2000 deal, so naturally I wore my UNIX shirt http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif
Also would you believe that of the two systems I use daily one runs linux only and the other runs linux most of the time? not too hard to switch for me http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif I'll miss the games for a bit though http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif
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