killing = experience, is there a better way?

[tking]

Piles of corpses and rivers of blood…

I'm currently swinging my way through Never Winter Nights and last night, after clearing out a room of guards, I paused for a moment. Bodies lay scattered around me and the blood was thick on the floor. In my character's head came the thought, "I just murdered eight men."

I think about the mountains of corpses I've made in this game (which I'm enjoying otherwise - it is quite beautifully rendered), and I'm only on Chapter 2! This isn't slagging against NWN specifically, all computer based role playing games do this.

Why couldn't I earn experience by taking it away from people I subdue (that even makes sense in a balance of nature sort of way). With lethality as a rare occurrence, but being subdued having an immediate effect on experience, I imagine most characters would be more careful especially if this system also took away or greatly minimized the 'save game' crutch. I take many more risks knowing that I'm 10 seconds of hard drive access away from trying it again.

I enjoy a good fight more than most people, but what's happening in NWN (and every other computer RPG I've played) is not a good fight, it's a dumbed down fight against dimensionless opponents.

There are so many ways that a role playing world can become encompassing, but the game makers don’t seem to want to take that step. If it sells as it is why tamper with it I guess. Well here’s another angle: build it and they will come. If a designer out there can come up with a role playing game that incorporates a respect for violence and concentrates on developing a stronger tie between player and character, I’ll be the first to sign up.

Just some thoughts while standing ankle deep in the blood of guards who were just doing their jobs.

T

[Dave Myers]

Have you tried Morrowind?

[tking]

Originally posted by Dave Myers
Have you tried Morrowind?

There is honestly no inane, never ending hack and slash? You can get experience doing things other than beating people to a bloody pulp?

T

[Dave Myers]

you can get experience from running and jumping. You can get experience from healing yourself. You gain experience bartering with shop keepers over prices. Check out the morrowind website for more details or read the techtv review.

www.elderscrolls.com

www.techtv.com

****, I finally shed that Junior member status.:D

[BadBadNeil]

Make sure you have a MONSTEROUS system when you try to run morrowind. I have friends whos GF4's werent up to the task...

Unfortunately exp is only gained that way. What sux even more is when I got to end of NWN i was prolly like level 18-20 or so and I killed EVERY enemy I made a point of it. I got weapons n amulets n stuff late in the game that said must be level 28!! IMPOSSIBLE.

You do get exp from solving quests though. A lot for certain ones in excess of 1500 on some.

[tking]

Originally posted by BadBadNeil
You do get exp from solving quests though.

True, but here's a good example of a quest in NWN:

You meet a guy on the street. He tells you a nasty half orc has taken over the area. You find the orc and slaughter it. You don't get any experience points for the quest, but your alignment goes up 3 points in the Good catagory (?!?)

Makes perfect sense to me, most major religeons have a clause about how if you kill someone based on hearsay you will go to heaven.:rolleyes:

You mentioned in your other thread about NWN that the single player game was lacking compared to BG I & II. I agree, I think they spent more on programmers and animators than they did on story developers. After playing the BG games and Torment I was expecting more story.

Morrowind sounds like it's the way to go, which is disappointing because I was waiting on NWN for almost a year.

T

[Optimus Prime]

the multiplayer aspect of NWN is where it shines, with the vast amount of Multiplayer modes to choose from, you can even be a dungeon master! it is a GREAT multiplayer game, and a fairly good single player game. it is a must buy. Morrowind is good but i dislike the fact it is in first person and the third person cam is quite... well its **** basically.

[kimike]

Ive heard good things about "tribes"...anyone ever play it?

Where could i get these games

[Dave Myers]

Originally posted by Optimus Prime
Morrowind is good but i dislike the fact it is in first person and the third person cam is quite... well its **** basically.

You ain't lyin'

It's almost as if they threw the 3rd person option in at the last minute. It works OK for melee combat, but ranged weapons and destruction spells absolutly choke. Still, I dig the game.

[Optimus Prime]

tribes 2 is a great game but it is not rpg! multiplayer game, great game, but i dont know where to buy it, no one sells the **** thing anymore! :(

[BadBadNeil]

everything is pay to play multiplayer nowadays and it sux. I will NEVER EVER NEVER EVER pay to play a game online. It's bad nuff that ppl pay $50+ for a **** game. Blizzard got it right a while back, too back they look like they are going to move to pay to play too. What a waste of money.

[Optimus Prime]

agreed bad neil, i will never pay for play, its as bad as those porn shows... or something. lol.

[kornapus]

Yeah Dave is right if u don¡¦t want senseless killing try morrowind.
U actually get in trouble if u kill without right cause. You can¡¦t attack a person without them attacking you first if u do the law is after you. Actually I like the killing in games its a good release point. I had a large bounty on my head after I set the codes into morrowind and went on a village-to-village killing spree stealing all that I could carry.
But I couldn't stand it any more after the game randomly crashes while loading. I guess i need a better computer before I make my return to morrowind.
:x

[tking]

Originally posted by kornapus
Actually I like the killing in games its a good release point.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I love a good fight, I'm a hockey player, Kendo practicioner and I've practiced several martial arts. Maybe that's why I *know* that what is happening on screen is ****. My familiarity with the real thing makes what I see on the screen look ridiculous.

Have you ever been in a fist fight? Remember the adrenaline? Remember the fear mixed with resolve? Remember that almost anyone will give up after they take the first knuckle to the nose? Do you know how hard it is to find someone committed to the fight and not their own self preservation. 99% of people you'll ever face in physical conflict will cut and run at the first chance. The remaining 1% are mostly mentally unbalanced and don't fight very well anyway. There are very few individuals who can commit themselves to a fight no matter the outcome and do it with a cold, clear mind.

My issue with these games revolves around how unrealistic it is and how they use lots of spurting blood to make up for any real intelligence. It's become the standard to make boring, mechanical killing the vehicle to advance you in a gameworld. It's unrealistic, simple and lazy, and it desensitizes people to violence without ever letting them know what it really is.

I would love to see a game that tries to add some intelligence to the violence.

T

[Dave Myers]

Originally posted by tking


My issue with these games revolves around how unrealistic it is and how they use lots of spurting blood to make up for any real intelligence. It's become the standard to make boring, mechanical killing the vehicle to advance you in a gameworld. It's unrealistic, simple and lazy, and it desensitizes people to violence without ever letting them know what it really is.


It's like Christmas Jones in the last 007 flick. As if a nuclear engineer would look as hot as Denise Richards. Ok so it really isn't like what you were saying, but it's what I thought about.:)

Originally posted by tking


I would love to see a game that tries to add some intelligence to the violence.

T

If that is what you want, go get Morrowind. People will ask you to do side quests, but you get to decide if you want to do it. IE, something much like this conversation takes place early on in the game: "I lost money gambling to this dude, will you go kill him and get my loot? I'll give you some money if you do." You get to decide what is a just cause and what isn't.

A word of warning, Don't be shocked if you end up skipping meals and sleep over this game.

[tking]

Originally posted by Dave Myers
... as hot as Denise Richards.

Mmmm, Denise Richards... uh, sorry. What were we talking about?:D

T

ps: Oh yeah, Morrowind... it goes on the must get list, which means I'll pick it up in a few weeks when the sting of paying what I paid for NWN wears off.