To Win-Modem Or Not to Win-Modem

[Mbarb]

That is the question.

I will be looking to replace my old (T)rusty 33.6 modem soon so I can join the world of v.90. I know some of the advantages/disadvantages of winmodems but I thought I might get some more feedback.
Good/bad brands.

System
k6-3 @350
Epox mvp2g-m
64meg ram
evt..ect.

I have free PCI and ISA slots but am thinking an ISA card so I leave the PCI for other things.

Thanks
Matt

[Eli]

Well if it has to be an ISA modem it won't be a winmodem. I think all winmodems are on the PCI bus, but of course I could be mistaken...

[Dominus]

I, myself am not a great fan of winmodems, but it really depends on what you use the modem for. The reason winmodems are cheaper the normal modems is that they leave most of the work of changing info into signals that can be sent over phonelines to Windows (hence WINmodem) whereas older style modems do this with hardware. This is all well and good if you're only going to use the modem for the internet/DUN in win9x, but the modem won't work in any other OS or even in DOS or DOS apps. In my opinion, since they are so cheap, they're usually not good products, so if money is no object, try a normal ISA 56k modem. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything here.

[reboot]

Only one discrepancy, Winmodems do not rely on windows to do the processing, rather they rely on your CPU and RAM. Yes, they do only run in windows.
I'm running a rockwell based HCF winmodem with the same processor (AMD 350) with no trouble. Connects ~49,333-52k. Processor use while connected is ~11% (2% at idle) with no noticable increase in temp. The PCI winmodems work better than the ISA winmodems. For gaming though, I'd recommend an ISA or PCI "hard" modem. (Yes, there are PCI hard modems around, although hard to find.)
Cheers, Jim

[ENVY]

Simply put,THEY SUCK!This may start somes wars here but face it,it's the truth!They suck down your resources and can be total hell to install.Especially if you are upgrading from another modem.
Drop the extra bucks and get a solid fax modem.I have not seen alot of difference between isa and pci.
I have seen complaints where people say their ping has increased when going to pci.
Also heard the fix for this is to swap the slots so this may not be a problem.

[This message has been edited by ENVY (edited 05-05-99).]

[Rickee]

You cannot really associate PCI Modems to Winmodems, although there seems to be a trend. There are Dos/Win modem that use the PCI slot. There are Winmodems (aka 3Com/USR Winmodems) using ISA Slots.

To add to reboot's comment, there are some PCI Modems that are considered Hardware Modems (which processes on their own), as opposed to Software Modem (which use the CPU to process some information).

If you want to go for a hardware modem, the Diamond Supra Express or the higher priced 3Com/USR Courier modems have been solid (based only on my experiences and installs).

If you are a light internet user, there are no problems with software modems (such as the Diamond Supra Max). Also, having a faster computer should not really hinder performance (unless your playing a high intensity 3D Game on the net/modem)

The only issues I've seen regarding PCI modems is its unexpected timeouts (hence disconnections).

Regards.

[Susan]

Whether they be PCI Winmodems/DOS or ISA Winmodems/DOS, they don't work for other OS's.

If you ever intend to do Linux, get a non-Winmodem.

[reboot]

Addendum: I have 2 modems. A PCI Rockwell HCF winmodem (described above), and a Rockwell PCI "hard" modem. I multilink them for internet use in Windows.
I use the hard modem in Linux (Red Hat with KDE).
I also use the hard modem to answer my fax # while surfing on the other.
I'll never go back to just one modem, and the price of modems is so cheap, why not get 2 or 3?
Hmmm, 2 for surfing multilinked, and 1 for faxes?
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
Jim

[Bleeding Edge]

A question better left unasked.

EDIT

(referencing the original question)

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 05-05-99).]

[Roy]

My local guru hates winmodems. I picked up a USR/3-Com Voice/Fax modem cheap at a show and discovered it to be an ISA Winmodem when I got home. The floppy was damaged, a friend downloaded the driver for me. It went in without a problem and works like a charm. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[CMonster]

Yeah, I am using an ISA 56K/V90 "Winmodem" right now, but only because it was $19,and it works pretty well for what it is. I also have a Diamond Supra Express 56K\V90 and a Creative Blaster 56K/V90 - both of these are the standard modem (non win-version) and they perform very well and I can notice my system performs a little better while multitasking online.

I'm sure with the popularity of these Win-ripoff-modems that someone will soon be writing Linux drivers at least for the major brand name modems.

[bharn]

I've got a "HCF" modem from AOPEM (FM56-P) that i've been using for quite some time. It works like a charm and you don't notice any sytem degradation at all using it. Oh yeah, it's a PCI one. I've installed a couple here and there without a hitch. Some of the "KNOW IT ALLS" out there tend to fiddle too much and create problems for themselves. They sell for about 40 bucks at the shows and are quite a bargain. BTW, I use this for my answering maching with MS Phone and frequently use the speakerphone. I use the Caller ID, distinctive rings for fax and RAS and love the way this sucker works. I also play online games (FS98 mostly) on my AMD 350 and it's flawless! And I guess I'll take a shot at gettin' flamed by saying the heck with DOS/LINUX. I'm using '98 AND LOVING IT! So read your manuals kiddies and enjoy!!

[kwai]

prompted by this thread, i went and swapped my newcom controller based modem back to a usr isa winmodem and confirmed it:

the winmodem is faster by about 0.8 kbps

i guess i'll keep it in there since i'm getting a lot of mp3s lately.

[Helly Hansen]

If you build or work with systems, not buying winmodems will save you lots of time and trouble but not money! ISA modems are usually so much easier! I use a winmodem myself and perfer it for a little added performance. If you get a winmodem get a Rockwell based or U.S. Robotics. Lucents are OK but seem to almost always connect at 24000, 26400 or 32000 Max using AOL and mostly run pretty slow with Netscape but faster speeds are reported. I have tried editing strings and using updated drives and tweaked with settings. This has happend on several systems I have worked with. Most of the $19 or $29 winmodems are cheap and usually take days to install or do not work at all. Beware of the common IRQ conflicts with the PCI winmodems! Crazy things happen with the cheap winmodems (COM 17?) (COM 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5?) Really Strange!

Brandon Sandifer
Sandifer Peripherals
www.gowiththebest.com

[Plaster]

I personally like my Winmodem. It's a Rockwell PCI 56K HCF V.90. I do have an ISA hardmodem installed for gaming because the Winmodems pings are awful. On the other hand, when it comes to internet surfing, I use the 56K Windmodem. My 33.6 only connected at 28.8 and lower and download rates never exceded 3.0 k/per second. My Winmodem connects at a top speed of 33600, but my download rates sometime reach 4-5 kb/sec. I personally think it was $35 well spent. As for installation? It was quick and painless.

[BBA]

NOT to WinModem!!!

All internal modems are junk!

Use an External modem!

Other than using a cable modem, thats the best advice you will hear on modems!

BBA

[steves]

Come on BBA, what have you got against decent internal hardware modems.

The main risk with a internal hardware modem against it's external counterpart is that of unexpected disconnects due to interference inside your case.

So don't by a dirt cheap one and don't put it right next to your overclocked Voodoo/TNT card. A little common sense and all will be fine.

On the original point - why bother with soft/win modems when the price difference to a hardware modem is so small.

[BBA]

Actually, I used to use a USR 33.6 Voice/Fax/Data internal modem. It did ok, but since I started working in the business, I find that a reliable internal modem is hard to come by. Everyone at work seems to not like internals either because they die far too often, the majority of them are winmodems and they allow phone line spikes to damage the mb. They are harder to replace also (you have to dissamble the PC).

But who knows, if your happy... Hey!

BBA

[bighogjeep]

win modem here and it says i log on at 42000 usually but old phone lines only allow up to 28000 bps but out of everyone on motocross madness my lat is as good as cable modems so win modems are not the problem its the servers u use if the rest are having problems it did help when i got the latest driver i give them 2 thumb up

[steves]

BBA~Intresting point about phone line spikes. I guess that is much worse if you live in an area with overhead phone lines which can be prone to lightening strikes. Also the quality of your phone system/supplier. It isn't an point come across before - perhaps it's not so much of a problem in the UK.

[dafremen]

What really amazes me, is how the question got overlooked in favor of personal TRIBUTES to modems Win or Non-Winmodem. The answer to the question is NOT a matter of money, if you can afford 14.95 a month for internet access, then you can afford the additional cost of a hardware modem. If anyone tells you that you will experience increased performance with a winmodem, they are LYING to you, period. It is physically impossible. If you really need to save the 20 or 30 bucks and you will NOT be doing INTENSIVE online transmitting and receiving, then a winmodem may be right for you. What many of these "happy" winmodem owners fail to realize is that they just haven't had enough things RUNNING yet. Install that extra Network card driver, or that extra virus scan utility, eventually you WILL watch your online performance degrade, horribly. If you are an online gamer, prepare for frustration, there is just NO way that you will be able to recieve/transmit, render and process all of those packets and still get a decent response. I've been playing online for over 4 years now, it's just NOT going to happen, dream on. My buddy bought a winmodem against my advice, I just sent him my old 33.6 Best Data Smart One to replace it. He's been nothing but pissed since he got the Winmodem. If you're just going to be web browsing. Go for it...DON'T expect better performance, thats a bunch of hogwash anyhow,hardware IRQ's have priority over software ones and any programmer will tell you that.As for the guy touting external modems, hey they're portable, they've got their own power supply, but you WILL lose a bit of performance(just a touch) by using one. It's simple logic, with an internal yer modem is connected to the same bus as the CPU is, immediate access. With the External, FIRST you have to transmit to the motherboards UART(Serial port) then to the CPU over the bus.
My company STOPPED using Winmodems, because of the incredible pain in the *** that they are. I recommend that you do the same, the only one that REALLY saves money off of these winmodem things are the modem manufacturers and the PC salespeople.

Roger Dafremen

[Graham]

To paraphrase the Bard,

To Win-Modem Or Not to Win-Modem, that is no question.

Stick to external hardware version.

Justmy opinion, after 24 years doing data from 200 baud up.

G

[LiLRiceBoi]

try to get a hard modem if you can

[magk9]

Hard modem my ***!! I've got a DSI (creative)WinModem that connects up TO, 52,000.....I never got that with a hard modem. Lucents are good too, but DSI's are FAAANNNNtastic!

[JayMan]

My internal ISA US Robotics 33.6K modem got fried, so i went to a SwannSmart 56Kflex/V.90 internal, lucent chipset winmodem. I had loads of trouble with it, had trouble keeping a connection (only actually had touble on warm-hot days, which here sydney tend to happen a fair bit durin summer), the only i way i could get it to keep connected was to mod the init strings so that it was set to only use v.32 not v.90 = very bad performance. After being anoyed by all the fuss i took it back demanded money back for it, i got a Banksia Wave Sp 56kflex/v.90 (external), can say nothing but good things for this, uses a rockwell chipset. Always had nothign less than 52,000 connection, but more often a 57,600, yup, thats right, the maximum speed capable from the modem (i have very good quality phone lines, for anyone in australia, get optus phone lines if you can, they actually have 8x better speed capabilities than Telstra phone lines). But since then i have had a new toy in my collection, nortel networks cable modem, its the way to go! hehe.

JayMan

[bdunn]

go with a hard modem. BBA is right about externals being nice but I recently saw the worst of all combinations an external USB Winmodem. It is a CPU pig. I like the Multitech ZDX external modems we use at the office. I have an ancient Zoom V.90 ISA hardmodem at home.

[elroy]

Everyone in the world is on this one, so why not me also. I've had a lot of trouble installing PC Tel chipset software modems. Lots of junk. I've had good luck with Motorola chipset software modems. I personally use a Rockwell hardware modem and wouldn't have a winmodem. Just a note: there are now winmodems that run in Linux also.

[Roy]

I've installed WinModems that were as fast as hardware modems. It seems to depend on system resources and how much junk is running in the background.

Here's (http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/007715.html) a recent thread of mine on the subject.

[c0r3file]

Winmodems:

use up CPU time
use up memory
if they hang, ctrl-al-del

External Modems:

take up more room
will work with Linux also
if they hang, reset them and continue
plus they have flashy lights, which is most important to me. ;-)

[dafremen]

As a follow up to my comments about Winmodems, I would like to add this:

Manufacturers of PC-Based products are now ALL in almost universal agreement, say NO to Winmodems.

After the initial "discovery period" where Winmodems were supposedly the big COST saver in PC-BASED manufacturing, product manufacturers have come to find that:

1. The initial cost savings are lost to field service calls because of customer complaints.

2. Overall performance degrades as the base or "operator station" in customer routes become saturated with concurrently running applications.

3. Worst of all, eventually even the COST of the Winmodems has inevitably been EATEN by the company, when engineering determines that the source of the above two problems were the WINMODEMS and they are subsequently replaced with Hardware versions (Usually Internal because of lower cost, sometimes External because of lightning strike concerns.)

The only companies these days that are putting Winmodems into their products are companies like GateWay and Dell who have every incentive to lower their costs and a customer base that consists mainly of web browsing non-techies.

P.S. If you REALLY want performance...go CABLE/DSL!!! I love mine!


[This message has been edited by dafremen (edited 02-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dafremen (edited 02-05-2001).]

[RobRich]

I have had countless Winmodems and hardware internal modems over the past few years. I even was one of the first to actually test a true software DSP modem (28.8, with at that time a high end P-166 or better!).

However, I still have came back to the same modem for all of my personal communications needs. For the past three years, I have relied exclusively on my 3COM/USR v.90 Sportster External. I have the higher-end model with the ~25 MHz DSP. It works in every OS, has always proven stable, and has not caused me a single problem to date. I admit it cost over $150 when I bought it, but this has been the most reliable PC component I have ever used. In my opinion, money well spent.

The major reason I prefer externals is for expandibility. I am always in need for additional expansion slots, but I doubt I will ever miss one of my rather outdated serial ports.

Later,
Robert Richmond