PCChips to Asus. Look at the increase in speed

[Benssax]

Well I got my new Asus motherboard for my new PIII 1.0 Ghz..
I use to have a PCCHips m780, I have it running at 1.1ghz.
And here are my performance increases.

3dmark2001 went up more the 1100 points. :D
Ram speed from Dacris Benchmark went from 235mb/s to 455mb/s
:D :p

[gibsinep]

Just shows how much junk PCchips boards are. It is a know fact that PCchips boards don't excell at anything. Were Asus makes good quality-fast boards

[deadkenny]

Yes, but which ASUS board? It might the chipset rather than the board manufacturer that's the cause of the improvement. Regardless, congrats.

[Benssax]

I went from VIA KT133 to the Intel 815E chipset :D

[deadkenny]

I think that's a big part of it.

[Peter M]

Benssax, you're the #1 expert here I guess. You don't even know what chipset your original board had ... KT133 it was not - that's an Athlon chipset, dummy.

In fact, your increase in speed comes from moving from an integrated-VGA chipset (VIA PM133) to a non-integrated one.

Before you **** on a manufacturer, get your facts right. Unless you manage that, shut up.

Same to you gibsinep. Grow up.

[gibsinep]

Same to you gibsinep. Grow up.

ohh, I guess you know of good PChips boards?

I guess you have read of Good Pchips Boards?


ok....

I think we all know in a battle of Pchips vs. Asus who will win?


Why the harsh words anyways?

[Peter M]

Because FUD parrotwork pisses me off. Yes I do have my own experience with PC-Chips mainboards - with close to 100 of them. First hand, long term.

Are you even aware that PC-Chips _is_ ECS? Supermicro also is the same company. Abit and Shuttle outsource quite a bit of engineering work and much of their manufacturing to PC-Chips.

ASUS themselves know that their approach is losing out. Guess why they're hurriedly building a "low cost, no nonsense" board brand? Right, because the PC-Chips group is eating huge chunks out of everyone else's business. That's because their stuff is cost effective, piling up design wins from the big volume OEMs. And big volume OEM business is something you don't get when all you make is **** - as you claimed.

Hence, I repeat, if you don't know what you're talking about then keep quiet.

Peter

[gibsinep]

Ok, I am well aware of who Pchips, ECS, and all the other are. I am not a complete retard you know. I ave also had a few experiences with Pcchips boards. Not as many as you have as I tried to stay away from them. First time the motherboard, failed to boot within 7 months. Board ended up never working again. Next time I tryed another it was plaqued with all sorts of problems, and I didn't want to deal with them so that got the boot.

All the others problems I am just basing on forum experiences, other forum experiences and online reviews.(all from knowing people, some friends ect). So now I stear clear of Pcchips, and try to help others as there ar many other boards that are better and cost around or a little more than them.

You are telling me to grow up when every time you end your post you end it with some derogative comment.

Why do I have to stand here and take that abuse, why cant you just carry on a normaly conersation/argument?

[Benssax]

My Asus Tusl2 also has integrated vga but i use the agp... and the PCchips board (m780) had some kind of VIA chipset on it.. Maybe a PM133 chipset but, I know it was VIA.

the main reason why I changed is I think this was on of VIA's bad chipsets.. And also I wanted intel chips.. Plus the Asus overclocks. I have my memory at 147fsb..

:)

[Benssax]

here are the two motherboards.


Asus http://usa.asus.com/mb/socket370/tusl2/overview.htm

Pcchips
http://www.pcchips.com.tw/M780.html


(The chipset was a PM133 ProSavage) I think this was a bad chipset from VIA..

[deadkenny]

Originally posted by Peter Missel
Benssax, you're the #1 expert here I guess. You don't even know what chipset your original board had ... KT133 it was not - that's an Athlon chipset, dummy.

In fact, your increase in speed comes from moving from an integrated-VGA chipset (VIA PM133) to a non-integrated one.

Before you **** on a manufacturer, get your facts right. Unless you manage that, shut up.

Same to you gibsinep. Grow up.

Peter, IMHO you could set people straight without being quite so 'abrasive' about it. Yes, sometimes people post stuff without knowing what they're talking about and yes they should be called on it. But things like "dummy" and "grow up" don't help the cause. BTW, nice catch about the socket A chipset mentioned. I checked the PCChips model on their website and noted the integrated Via 133 chipset without registering the "KT" in the later post. Anyway, I don't claim to be an expert (whatever that is) but I guess I do know something, since I seem to have escaped your wrath this time.:D

[DocEvi1]

I have used a lot of PCChips boards (not 100 tho :D) and found that they can be built really quickly, but the quality of them just isn't there. I have seen a 2000XP DDR PChips system slaughted by my Asus A7V133 1.4Tbird, not just in graphics but in memory bandwidth (relatively of course PC2700 vs PC133 :rolleyes: ), IDE transfer...the works.

I think there are two seperate markets, those people who want a basic system to do basic tasks such as Word Processing, Database....without to much speed, and the gamers/power users who like things to open NOW - they need the Asus/Gigabyte/MSI/other decent producer and seperates to perform.

Incidently I used one of the new PCChips boards which is using the Via KT333 chipset, looks and performs well, still not as good as Asus seperates in my opinion.

Stefan

[Grentarc]

OK... i have/had Pcchips boards.. (my current one doesnt work anymore for some unknown reason!) and I overclocked a Celeron 600 (66x9) to 900 and it was still alot slower at processing Seti@home WU's than a Celeron 500 on a BP6 (single CPU only!)
Now i know i'm not an Expert on PC-Chips, but that seems to me to be a very slow with 256mb ram and the BP6 having the same..

I dont get PCChips anymore (this last one was for free!) coz they anre never stable for me, had 2 DOA's and not very tweakable.

[otheos]

Lol, two tales of the impossible!!

A 533Mhz CPU crunching faster than a 900Mhz CPU. No way, sorry but if you managed this, it's 100% your fault not the motherboards.

An XP2000 + DDR that is slower (even in IDE transfers!!!!) than the lousiest of KT133A boards (yes the Asus) an a T-Bird 1400.

Now both of you, look what you have said and try to reflect on how far off reality these two statments are. Of course there is always the case that the systems you were looking at where rining on coal too.

As for the "basic system" market and "power user market" just look at the benchmarks. The difference between motherboards of the same generation is lower than 5% in performance. Is this worth 40% price difference? I guess the power in "power user" is not in the brain then is it?

And whad do you mean by decent producer? ECS is not decent? Can't you hear? Peter has made it clear enough to you all that if you're not decent you don't sell OEM at the volumes ECS does.

Terror stories are very common but 99.9999% is down to the builder incompetence.

[Grentarc]

impossible huh... wanna come here and se it for yaself? (pay ur own airfare!) would haveto get it to start up again, but when it worked i only used it for a BnetD server coz it was too **** to do anything else!

[otheos]

I wish I could afford a trip to Oz :(

Anyway, do you really believe that a motherboard can be responsible for reducing the performance of a cpu at 900Mhz, in a cpu intensive task such as seti@home, so much, that the same CPU clocked at almost half the speed on a different motherboard performs better?

Which part of this motherboard would be responsible for such an outstanding performance loss?

[Grentarc]

The crappy SiS Xcel2000 chipset is my guess!.. my board is the M748LMRT.. Slot1/Socket370 all in one.

[$1500-P4 gamer]

I can clear this up some. I have the same mobo- Grentarc! And its still running with a celII 800mhz so yes I can provide screen shots and benches if need be to prove myself! First off the cpu speed is fine on it. I can out bench a P3 750 on this celII combo. But heres the real prob. mem bandwidth. The M748LMRT scores a lowsy 120mb/sec. tops. Sometimes it benches 100mb/sec. The 440bx board I had scored 400+mb/sec. Now thats 4x the mem banwidth on the same sdram. Its easy to see this is not a gaming board. It will work fine on cpu intensive apps, or for office work BUT anything mem bandwidth hungry and it slows to a crawl. Now I was told it was due to the intergrated video by Peter Missel. This I can believe as it would hog quit a bit up doing this. But the fact is the bandwidth is terrible and thats one of the more important things for a power user- otheos.

"Is this worth 40% price difference?"

For 4x the performance on mem intensive apps. YES. I've had a 440bx via apollo pro 133 and a excell200 sis (pcchips) and I'll tell ya none hold a candle to a bx board. But the via also scored only about 160mb/sec. So in that case the pcchips isnt doing bad-for a low end board. Which is what it is. Look at how much it costs and all the intergrated stuff. Modem/sound/video/lan, of course buisness eat that up for the low cost-my god its 1/10th of what the avg. setup costs. But if you are a performance user-stay away. Thats my opinion on it-I've run the board long enuff to know. If you want to see the horid mem bench I'll post a screen shot!;) :t

[Strawbs]

calling ppl "dummy, loser, halfwit, etc." is not the best way to ingratiate yourself to others. it's un-called for.
one day mr.missel may require help, and one of those "Dummies" might log on as an alias and offer some contradictory advice that could see him burning something out (highly unlikely, but feasable).

sure! make a point, but there's no need to be downright nasty about it.

If your name was pamela or pauline, one might think it was a bad time of the month for you.

just mtc.

[jmichna]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but make a comment regarding Herr Missel: he is quite knowledgeable about ECS and PCChips products, but that is, I believe, because he works for that company. Folks may want to take that into consideration to help explain why he is rather thin-skinned regarding derogatory comments about these products.

Also, Gibsinep...
I finally realized where your "name" came from... took me quite a while to notice, guess the mind is just trolling the gutters today... sigh
:r

[gibsinep]

jmichna--------- :p :t

[Peter M]

Quite frankly, I don't. Netiquette would have made me say so.

In fact, as I said earlier, I'm a BIOS developper with http://www.sbs.com. Follow the "Processor Boards & Systems" link to see what I do for a living :)

ECS comes in when I build or just configure systems for friends, relatives, and old customers from my previous job (which I quit seven years ago) who still keep coming back to me. That about says it all. I do have direct communication to ECS techs, but that's because I occasionally spot BIOS issues noone else notices, and they appreciate my input. I get no pay for that - I just give the kind of quality feedback that any BIOS engineer is wishing for from their customers ;)

regards, Peter

[Peter M]

$1500-gamer, I told you more than once - you got to choose the right hammer for the task.

You cannot seriously want to use the lowest of the low end integrated mainboards for number crunching purposes. Comparing to i440BX is comparing apples and oranges, definitely. If there's anything poor to find in your report, then it's your choice of system.

This is the art in giving people a system they'll be happy with - listen to what they are up to, and give them something adequate with _some_ headroom, for a reasonable price. ECS help me cover the entire range from extremely broke students to demanding applications (I do neither servers nor "gaming" machines).

regards, Peter

[$1500-P4 gamer]

Gutten Tag, Peter missel!

Actually Peter missel, I was agreeing with ya.;) For buisness's and such they are a great deal. I'm giving the board to a person who wants just to get on the net for work research. Its a great mobo for that. thats only one example. What I was saying is if you want to do high end work you must spend alot of $. There are no shortcuts. Buisness's dont care about the vid card performance and such.

"you got to choose the right hammer for the task"

I totally agree with ya.;)

[DocEvi1]

relatively of course PC2700 vs PC133 :rolleyes: Put in the wrong place ;)

Yes I think that the extra money is worth the extra quality. ECS aren't that big over here in the UK (I haven't seen many of their boards at any rate at fairs.

At the beginning of this year, I would have said never use PCChips, or any other intergrated unit, but as Peter says use the right hammer for the job. What is the point of buying seperates, spending pooh-loads of cash on a high performance system when an intergrated PCChips system will allow you to give decent performance (for OS and application work) for home users? It took me a while to figure it out, but maybe PCChips aint that bad - cheap and to a certain extent cheerful :D

Stefan

[Peter M]

btw, they're going one step further ... now available: M810CL - the ultimate all-in-one, adding a non-upgradable Duron CPU (including heatsink and fan) to the usual VGA, sound, modem, LAN mix.

They've done that before, with 787CL, but that thing was so utterly slow ... no wonder, it was ye olde VIA PLE133 chipset paired with a lowly 667 MHz VIA C3. Yet still even that thing found a place in a couple of homes - for internet access and as a typewriter replacement.

regards, Peter