HELP TRYING TO SET UP HOME NETWORK BETWEEN 2k + 98SE

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Hi all, i have just set up my network between my 2k pro machine and my sis's 98SE turd bucket. However im ahving difficulty.. i can see the files i have set up to be shared on her computer okay - but her compo cannot see any shared files on my compo. Also whilst min can connect to the net okay - hers cannot -- help....please... :(

--Jakk:t

[Midknyte]

did you set up an identical username and password for her on both the win98 and win2k systems?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

....errrr no...:rolleyes: , im new to this.

i heard you had to set up the guest account if you were using 2k and 98...

HELP!!! :eek:

--Jakk:t

[Midknyte]

create a username and password using your local users and groups mmc. If you don't know how to use mmc, then you can just right click on "my computer" and click manage.

on your sister's computer, make sure that you are using "client for microsoft networks" as your primary network logon. when she logs in, have her use the same username and password you created on your win2k system. This should give her access rights to your system.

are you using a router or ICS?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I intend to use ICS, at the moment my sisters machine can ping my macine okay -- however i cannot ping hers

Unknown host etc...

and ideas - ive been at this for hours :@

--Jakk:t

[Midknyte]

are you sure the network card is working properly? ping 127.0.0.1 and see if you get a response. if not, then something is wrong.

what are your IPs? You should both be on the same range. Usually, you would use a non-routable class c address like
192.168.1.x. You could have 192.168.1.1 and your sister could be 192.168.1.2. You would both have the same subnet mask at 255.255.255.0 (standard class c mask). you should be able to ping both ways.

if you are using ICS, you must have 2 network cards. Make sure the configurations are correct on each card.

[Nick CPU]

manualy assign IP adress and Subnet mask. make sure the first three numbers are the smae for both computers. For example. make 1 computer this

Win 98 Rigt click on Network Neighborhood and go to properties. Select the TCP/IP settings.

IP ADDRESS 192.168.1.___(Make up a number between 1-255, different last number for each computer)

Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I've set the ip's as such -- could there be some other setting wrong??

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

To share the internet, you need to go to the network card that is actually connected to the internet, and right click, and choose sharing -> share this connection on your Win2K machine. Then go to your sister's computer and set-up IE to go via LAN, detecting it's own settings pretty much all the way.




As with the file-sharing, I once had this problem linking Win98 and Win2K machines, I ended up re-loading Win2K and it was sorted once I set up everything again.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Hmmmn - seems to have magically (yeah right this is windows:rolleyes: ) sorted itself out over the last few minutes .. we are now sharing okay -- now - to set up ICS:mad:

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Hmmn, having a bit of chew getting her machine to get onto the internet. I have set it to LAN connection and to autodetect settings but i keep getting server cannot be found msg...have also tried to detect network settings from here with no results...ideas??

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

(PS I DONT HAVE THE CABLE MODEM DRIVERS ON HER COMPO ANYMORE -- COULD THIS BE THE PROBLEM??)

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Errr... cable modems a USb and im only running two NIC's if thats of help...

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I see the problem here.


You have NTL, but they gave you the cheapo crappy Box to USB cable. Ah how they hate people setting up networks.





Basically, for ICS to work you have to tell your computer (the one connected to the internet) to be a DHCP server for the client computer.


Find out if there is any reference to LAN connections with the USB port, in control panel -> dial up and network connections. If no, i'd strongly recommend you ring NTL, tell them you really really reall really really dont like the new USB thing and ask for a set top box that has an RJ-45 out jack, so you can network properly. But don't say anything about setting up a network, they hate that and will give you some bullsh*t saying that they do not support any kinds of networks, and cannot offer any guidance or help. If it were up to them, every comp you have connected to the internet would hav it's own set top box with built in modem so that you have to pay 2 subscriptions. How cheeky.

[Midknyte]

sorry, I had to do some work. Can you believe they want me to work just because they pay me a salary? geeezzzz. hehehe

i know this contradicts what i told you to do, but try setting your sister's system to obtain an IP automatically and see if that works. Now that you have ICS setup, it should be able to pick up DHCP from your win2k system. :)

[Strat]

Midkynte, the problem is............ he can't tell his Win2K system to be a DHCP server, because the internet connection to that computer is a USB one. Therefore, he can't go to LAN and Dial-up conns and share the first connection.............rendering his computer a DHCP server for his sister. If you get what I mean.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

The USB cable modem is set up as a LAN connection under Network + Dialup settings. however when i set up sis's compo to "autodetect" after reboot it no longer communicates to my machine

Would putting a second network card in the 2k macine and running the cabl;e modem from that resolve this problem??

--Jakk:t

[Midknyte]

Strat, Now i see what you mean. I missed that. Hmmmm.

You might want to get another card, but if you're going through all that trouble, just get a router. it is as plug and play as it gets in networking. Linksys makes a good router + 4 port switch. The added protection of a firewall wouldn't hurt either.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Rightyo - first things first...

In my fiddling about i have come across another problem:mad:

Both machines are pinging each other okay

However although her machine can see my computer in network places okay -- i cannot see hers - is there any reason for this??

Also Strat, the modem i have does have an RJ45 port -- however i dont have a spare net card to plug it into, hence using the USB. If i get an extra net card - will it work okay -- or do i need to rign up and ask for the RJ45 box alone??, if so will bloody NTl charge me :rolleyes: .

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

However although her machine can see my computer in network places okay -- i cannot see hers - is there any reason for this??

--Fixed ^ okay, id forgot to enable filesharing...oops:x

However the problem with ICS still remains.

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

Lol silly Jakk :P, forgetting to allow file and print sharing stuffs hehe.




the modem i have does have an RJ45 port -- however i dont have a spare net card to plug it into, hence using the USB. If i get an extra net card - will it work okay



Yup yup yup, I thought they had given you a box that only has a fixed cable to USB link, seems not (shouldn't assume things). ICS will work if you use the RJ-45 out and connect it to a second NIC via a crossover CAT5 cable. This will work because you will be able to tell Win2K that you have 2 network connections, thus meaning the sharing tab when you right click a LAN connection will magically appear.




do i need to rign up and ask for the RJ45 box alone??, if so will bloody NTl charge me


I am pretty **** sure that NTL would charge you, but if your box has an RJ-45 out jack, then it's okay to use that, me saying that you needed a different box was just an assumption that they had given you one without an RJ-45 out.



Now you need to:


Get another NIC, install it, set it up bindings etc etc. When you done that post back and we'll try getting it going again :):t

[GatorBait]

If I remember correctly, ICS won't even allow itself to be enabled unless there are 2 NIC's in the machine. That's the first pre-requisite to using Microsoft's Internet Connection Sharing. Once you have 2 NIC's installed, you can run the Home Network setup wizard to both configure your maching to be the ICS host and connect to the net. This wizard will also prompt you to make a floppy disc that contains the network settings that are necessary for the other macines on your network to connect to the net through your machine. Just run the exe file that the Network Setup Wizard puts there on all of the other machines on your network and everything should be gravy. One NIC in your machine should be connected to the cable modem and the other wired to the hub/switch that all of the other machines on your LAN are connected to (i.e. - your sisters machine). I know it sucks, seeing as how you are currently using your cable modem with a USB connection, but I believe it's the only way in which ICS will work (if 2 NIC's are not detected, it won't work). Hope this helps.

[Midknyte]

I'm pretty sure Gator is right. That's what I was kinda getting at before. I think this is way too much time to be spending trying to get your network running. just get a Linksys router/switch. plug the 2 computers in and you're pretty much done. Is it really worth all this trouble? :D

[Bigjakkstaffa]

hi guys,

Yup strat - silly me.

You have all said that ICS will not work unless the cable modem is down as a Network connection, well the connection does appear as a network connection, and the sharing tab is availiable, however it doesnt seem to work - so does this mean i definitley need another NIC??

-oh and does the new NIC need to be identical to the other two??

--Jakk :t

[Strat]

does this mean i definitley need another NIC??



If I were you, yup i'd invest in another NIC, and don't forget the crossover cable for connection from cable box to your computer.





oh and does the new NIC need to be identical to the other two??

Not at all, just find the cheapest 100MB NIC you can find and install it. Yous houldn't really pay much over £10.

[Strat]

Gator, we covered that bit, but yeah you're right and you worded it a little better than I.


This will work because you will be able to tell Win2K that you have 2 network connections, thus meaning the sharing tab when you right click a LAN connection will magically appear.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

BUT THE USB CONNECTION SHOWS UP AS A NETWORK CONNECTION - AND DOES HAVE THE ICS TAB WITH IT!!

Sorry -- im just awfully confused by all this :( ... could someone explain why theres this problem with USB but not NIC to me... well looks like ive found sumink im a total n00b at at last...

Cheers guys, appreciate all the help thus far...

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

If the sharing tab is present, and you can file-share with your sister, then you should be able to DHCP serve for her.



Go to her computer, network properties, tell it to obtain IP address automatically and all that automatic stuff.


Tell IE to detect automatically, restart. Try connections.


If not, Win2K may be confused by the USB modem, I'm not sure........ this is why I don't like USB modems, or networking with anything to do with USB.



In any case, I suggest using the RJ-45 and CAT5 route if you wish to expand in any way a setup from one cable box to one PC.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Godamit - im sure im asting my time here :mad:

I am ABSOLUTLEY POSITIVELY SURE that my TCP/IP is set up okay - but still NO ICS!!! :mad: :mad:

I cannot figure this out for the life of me., Could the problem be that i havent got NetBEUI protocol installed - as i was talkign to soemone who said windows 98 cannot work with XP without it -- could the same be applicable of 2kpro??

i really am clutching at straws here (if you couldnt guess) - its got me at my wits end...

Well cheers guys,

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

Networking between Win2K and 98SE DOES WORK. I have this kind of network.



You asked how to make it work, we said how it works.

GO TO NETOWRK AND DIAL UP CONNECTIONS IN CONTROL PANEL

If you have 2 connections here, one for your NIC and one for your modem, then you should be good to go.


RIGHT CLICK THE CONNECTION TO THE INTERNET/MODEM/WAN/OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSE
RIGHT CLICK
CHOOSE SHARING
CHOOSE SHARE THIS CONNECTION



GO TO YOUR WIN98SE MACHINE
RIGHT CLICK NETWORK NEIGHBOURHOOD
CHOOSE PROPERTIES
CLICK ON THE TCP/IP [NIC NAME HERE] LINE
CLICK PROPERTIES
CLICK IP ADDRESS AT THE TOP
MAKE SURE IT IS SET TO OBTAIN IP ADDRESS AUTOMATICALLY
CLICK DNS CONFIGURATIONS
CHOOSE DISABLE DNS
CLICK BINDINGS
MAKE SURE IT IS BOUND WITH TCP/IP......

OPEN IE
GO TO TOOLS
INTERNET OPTIONS
CONNECTIONS
LAN SETTINGS
AUTOMATICALLY OBTAIN SETTINGS








RESTART BOTH MACHINES








IF THIS DON'T WORK BUY ANOTHER NIC AND USE THE RJ-45 OUT METHOD NOT THE USB OUT METHOD. IF THIS DOESNT WORK THEN YOUR PROBLEM IS THE SETUP OF THE NETWORKING USB IS NOT IDEAL FOR NETWORKING.


AND PLEASE DONT ACCUSE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO HELP OF WASTING YOUR TIME.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Sorry Strat - didnt mean that you guys were wasting my time - its just ive spent three days solid on this thing doing little else (apart from watching the world cup final :)), and its starting to wear me down a bit.

I shall try what you have suggested after work tonight - however im almost sure that i have these settings already.

Out of interest in the network control panel on the 98 machine, there is only one adapter (the NIC) and TCP/IP reads

TCP/IP

not

TCP/IP ---> (NIC NAME)

as everyone else is suggesting, could this be the fault??

Cheers, guys

and sorry bout the misunderstanding strat ;)

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

Sorry Jakk, I misunderstood what you said.

It seems from that misunderstanding, and me writing CLICK ON THE TCP/IP [NIC NAME HERE] LINE in a rage we have found what could be the problem lol :P



This means that the NIC on your sisters machine is not bound with the TCP/IP protocols........ I'm now pretty **** certain that this is why it won't work.



Go again to Win98SE machine:



Right click netork neighbourhood -> Properties

Find the NIC name in the list here

Click on Properties TAB

Click on Bindings TAB -> add TCP/IP protocols. (Might need the Win98SE CD).


If you see no tick box here, you may need to add the binding totally.
To do this:

Fid the NIC name in the list

Click it once, then click the tab called 'ADD'

Find protocols -> Microsoft -> TCP/IP

Have Win98SE CD at the ready.Install the protocols for it.



Well try this, it should work fine if you can get the list in network properties to have 'TCP/IP -> NIC Name'.

1 other thing, don't bother trying to remove the Dial up adapter in this list, or the TCP/IP -> Dial up adapter. As this messes up Win98 and will just make it harder to get bindings on the Network card.


Again, sorry about the misunderstang , and good luck.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

lunch break is coming -- so i'll tear home and give that ago -- lol

Funny that strat - i was sat there this morning thinking whats the difference between my setup and everyone elses and mine -- then - DOH!! not bound to the card :eek: .

LOL - ne wya - im off to give it a whirl

--Jakk

[Strat]

Good luck !


Post back with results.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

hmmn, still binds it as just TCP/IP...

I'll rip out NIC and put it back in methinks...shall report back after work methinks...

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

I remember this, when I first shoved a NIC into a WIN98SE box, it wouldn't have ANY of the TCP/IP bindings.


I can't remember how long it took me to get angry, but i think I ended up formatting and re-installing in the end, just because it pissed me off lol :mad: :rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:





You just gotta keep trying with this binding, as soon as it works (may take ages) you should be fine and working.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Well Strat, seeing as how lil sis's machine is more or less fu**ed up anyway as regards errors etc, im considering rformatting and installing 2k instead. Should this make enabling ICS any easier??

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

ACH DAMMIT!!! - still no luck - however another problem i was having (painfully slow transfers from host to client) has been cleaned up by the format and upgrade to 2k.

Any other ideas as regards ICS - this time between two 2k Pro machines...

Cheers

--Jakk:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

EH!!! , YOU WOT!!, WTF??

All of the above i shouted roughly 5 mins ago...

you see, having followed the above advice you have all given me - and then gone furthur by formatting and installign a new OS on my seemingly sadistic client, to seemingly no avail..in a stae of abject humiliation..totally bored, i sat at opened a command propt and began typing

ping www.ntl.com

..to my horror/ semi-delight, I ACTUALLY GOT A RESPONSE :eek:

and whatsmore this wasnt a one off, ive tried about 20 sites, so far with about a 50% sucess rate, the rest returning

Request timesd out

however i STILL cannot access the bloody internet / emails / IM, furthur help would be appreciated by you guys (you really are stars, especially Strat for all the support he has provided me with thus far :)), if you could get me over the final hurdle -- well at least it will stop my sister bloody moaning about wanting to be on MSN!! :mad:

Cheers

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

Right both comps are using Win2K pro now ?

GOOD !




Keep all settings on your computer the same.

Go to sisters comp, control panel, netowrk and dial up connections. The settings you need to have are in the picture I have attatched to this message, the adapter name will be different, of course. When you're in network/dial up connections, double click the network card, then choose properties, these are the two windows I have put in the attatchment.

[vibe666]

i got a new NIC a while back (when I first got ADSL) and when I put it in the machine just wouldn't boot. got halfway through bootup and then gave up. took me ages to figure it out. there was an engineer from the phone company there who was trying to sort it out and I figured it out while he was on the phone to his head office trying to find a solution.

turned out the defaults were 10/100 full duplex on the card and it was hanging the machine on bootup. worked fine as soon as i changed it.

real pain in the *** though. everyone has had network troubles at some point in their live, don't sweat it too much, it'll all get sorted sooner or later. it's usually something silly that you overlooked at the start. thats the way it is with me anyway.

***viBe***
Why not put your PC's idle time to good use by downloading the seti@home client (ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/setiathome/setiathome_win_3_07.exe) and then joining the Sysopt.com Users 2002 (http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/cgi?cmd=team_lookup&name=Sysopt.com+Users+2002) Team.
UPDATE: To speed up your WU times try the Command Line Client (ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/setiathome/setiathome-3.03.i386-winnt-cmdline.exe) and SetiHide (http://www.scheit.de/seti/1543.zip). Its not nearly as pretty but its much faster than the Windows client. :D
Good SetiHide thread HERE (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94507). Guide to setting up SetiHide on page 5 of thread.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Got it sorted, thanks a lot guys - couldnt have done it without you :)

Appears to be that the win98 installation on my sisters machine was a bit raggy - the format and upgrade to 2k has doen it the world of good - LAN performs a lot faster and now ICS works - hooray :D:D

--Jakk:t

[Strat]

Did you put the settings on NIC to the ones I put in the attatchment.


Just about when did it start working.
What did you do/follow when it got going ?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Basically i formatted HDD, installed win 2k + NIC + drivers, set up ICS like i had been doing before and voila!!

musta been something wrong with the 98 system - you know what sisters are like - she'd prolly deleted half the system files or sumink :rolleyes:

--Well all the best -- until the next time i break sumink anyway :p

--Jakk:t