Chandra Found

[SPEEDO]

Well they think they have found Chandra Levy's body...:(



SPEEDO

[wallie_x]

A sad testimony to our decaying morality and the ineptitude of our government to enact laws to curtail it. In what other society can the rights of the few supercede the rights of the many? There used to be a time when people recognized spiritual vice and vehemently opposed it. Our society is so loose in its morality that it breeds more murderers per capita than any other industrialized society. Why? Because 'freedom speech' has spawned a culture of death that so neutralizes the innate value of human life that it makes sport out killing another person. Just look at some of the violent video games and you will see the meaning of my statements.

[grimfandango]

And here we are doing nothin about this...
why should we tolerate all this...we should have him arrested for the murder of Chandra..


:(

[Lycia]

Originally posted by grimfandango
And here we are doing nothin about this...
why should we tolerate all this...we should have him arrested for the murder of Chandra..


:(

Who? Conduuit (sp)? Are you so sure he did it?? What proof do you have?

[bunkskunk]

Originally posted by wallie_x
A sad testimony to our decaying morality and the ineptitude of our government to enact laws to curtail it. In what other society can the rights of the few supercede the rights of the many? There used to be a time when people recognized spiritual vice and vehemently opposed it. Our society is so loose in its morality that it breeds more murderers per capita than any other industrialized society. Why? Because 'freedom speech' has spawned a culture of death that so neutralizes the innate value of human life that it makes sport out killing another person. Just look at some of the violent video games and you will see the meaning of my statements.

I love posts like this. You're right...we need to get rid of that silly freedom of speech thing...nothing good can come from that. I wish the government would send a monthly newletter and tell us what we can say and do...how great would that be!. We obviously cannot be trusted to think for ourselves. While they do that, they might as well censor tv, the press, the internet, books, mags, and everything else. The govt. could establish a Central Entertainment Agency to provide all of us sinners with clean, sanitary entertainment that will keep us from comitting crimes and turn all of our kids into angels. It would be like receiving government cheese, except they could give us a video cassette of leave it to beaver or a dvd of sesame street. And the video games...well I can't count the number of times I've gone out and killed dozens of people with my chainsaw after a long q3 session. Gives me a warm feeling inside...probably from all those reruns of Combat! that I watched when I was little.

Surely you realize that you able to post to this forum because of your freedom of speech? Isn't that why you can gripe about the government and not worry about going to jail? Haven't you seen a shows such as shock tv on hbo which shows clips of wild-*** tv shows from all over the world? This stuff makes our tv look sqeeky clean. Do you think the US is the only place with loose morals?

How bout we put a little responsibility on the parents for a change?. The children are the future and it's the parents job to mold their sense of morality and right and wrong..not the government.

Maybe you would have been happier under the rule of Bin Ladden...?...Hitler?...Stalin?...Ming the Merciless? Maybe bring back the Inquizition....? Any of these would surely get rid of these foolish freedoms that seem to cause so many problems.


:t

[wallie_x]

Sorry you flunked, 'Critical Thinking 101'. The slippery slope you outline is a form of fallacious thinking. Current social trends depict a society that is ill, yet refuses to acknowledge the symptoms. I point to statistics and social trends. Western society is more of a by-product of socialization from the media than you think. Where else in a so-called "Free Society" is the ideation of law placed in a position of being an absolute? (e.g. separation of church and state, the right to bare arms etc.) And when is law inherently of more innate worth than the lives of the people who wrote the laws to begin with? The US is a perversion of the original framers intended purpose. I think Ben Franklin said, "Only a virtuous society is capable of living in freedom." I don't consider it freedom that when I walk down the street that I have to live in fear of my safety, because my society generates so many perverts that I have a good chance of ending up like Chandra.

[Stephen Soulsby]

The local DC news here has been reporting that where Chandra was found is the same jogging trail where two other women were murdered within two months of Chandra's disappearance. I believe they said the killer for those women is still unknown. It would seem more likely to me that this would be this person's third victim. I think the evidence against Condit is circumstancial really. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Condit anyways. He comes from the Granola state (the land of fruits, flakes, and nuts). And besides that, he just looks like an assh***. But that's just my opinion on him. I do feel bad that this woman was killed, but when it pollutes the news for months, I was oddly relieved on 9-11 to see something else on the news for once. Now I can't watch the news anymore because it is nothing but the same story aired over and over again.

[wallie_x]

I do understand where you are coming from. But what one must remember is that the news and Jerry Springer have a common goal: to captivate your attention. It used to be that reporters prided themselves on presenting the news objectively. That certainly is not the case now. Sensationalism and hyperbole are the order of the day. The news media has degenerated into a circus that manipulates the masses by appealing to their emotions, not their intellect.

[Bovon]

Originally posted by Stephen Soulsby
He comes from the Granola state (the land of fruits, flakes, and nuts).

God!!...I love it!

I really don't think Condit had anything to do with her murder. Most politicians have enough money and power to help get them out of a situation gone bad (if thats what happened here). Who knows, Chandra may have been looking for a way to move on with her life too you know?

If Condit is ever proven to have had one tiny thing to do with her dissapearence and demise, then yes...I would certainly help hang him in public if that were allowed. But, she was a grown woman, she certainly had the right to do whatever she wanted to do. Condit has been publicly humiliated for an affair, he has lost his job because of his mistake. She was as much a part of that 'mistake' as he was. It has always taken two to tango!

How many more of our fine, upstanding Congressmen and Senators would you think that have muttered under their breath, that "except for the grace of God, there goes I".

If you are beginning to think I condone extra marital affairs, forget that right now. I happen to believe in the oath one takes when they say "I do"... An affair is just about the most demeaning thing a person, man or woman, can do while married. It really takes a gutless wonder to wallow in a hog pen, which is about the same thing.

[SPEEDO]

Lets review some of the known facts here..:)

They are leaning towards the theory that the body was placed here after the searches in that area were completed, 1st. Red Flag

The last words she spoke to anybody were "I've got Big News"

Now this is speculation on my part but what if she were pregnant and told him about it...:(

This poor bast**d probably saw his life, career and marriage going down the drain and probably just lost it...:eek:

Now what a convenient place to put the body right where two other joggers met their demise.

This sounds like the work of a seasoned politician at his best, Cheat, Lie and Coverup...:mad:

Just My $.02

SPEEDO

[Slitelyused]

I heard OJ and Conditt are carpooling now,,looking for the real killers,,, Blake had to drop out,,,

[bunkskunk]

Originally posted by wallie_x
I don't consider it freedom that when I walk down the street that I have to live in fear of my safety

I'm truly sorry if you are living in fear. I was badly injured many years ago in a non contact, hit and run auto accident and was left for dead by the people who caused it. So what was I to do? Never drive again? Shut my life down and hide in my house? Should I hate America and blame the government for allowing such a thing to happen? I easily could have, but chose not to. I guess it's because for every bad thing that has happened to me, 10 good things have happened, and I prefer to dwell in the good rather than the bad.

Guess I must have flunked 'social paranoia 101' too.

What happened to Chandra is very sad, and I hope the person who did it pays dearly. But guess what..It's going to happen again and again. I don't pretend to know what the solution is, but blaming it on our freedoms is not for me. I think most of us would rather have too much freedom than too little.

Happy Memorial Day everyone, especially the vets...living and dead. I think what we have here in the good ol USA was worth fighting and dying for...and still is.

[wallie_x]

The problem is much more complex than either yours or my statements suggest. I do resent your initial reply. You slammed me with unmitigated hyperbole in a fallacy known as the slippery slope. You suggest that if ‘a’ where to happen then ‘b’ and ‘c’ are sure to follow in a domino like effect. You cannot substantiate your argument with empirical fact, you rely on playing on peoples emotions because the slippery slope appeals to one’s passions; it is not an intellectual argument because you cannot state with any degree of probability that your domino scenario will follow necessarily. True statements have conclusions that follow necessarily with high degrees of probability. The slippery slope cannot make such an assertion. I don’t know if you analyzed your own statements, but your first assertion is one with the extremists. The gun nuts say: “ You can’t enact gun control laws!! If you do then the next thing is that you will take away our rights to own guns.” Similarly, the pro-abortionist say: “Your can’t enact laws limiting abortion!!! If you do you, then the next thing that will happen is that you will take away our rights to abortions altogether.” Your first reply makes use of the very same fallacious logic as those stated above. Moreover, you have used my words out of the context that I intended. I do not live in a state of perpetual fear; to assert such is a childish, baseless argument indeed. Even your last reply, though toned down in rhetoric, is based more on emotion that fact.

[BipolarBill]

PC, in this forum, does not stand for Politically Correct. The entire world is corrupt. There are no exceptions. We are all sinners. We must deal with these things as they come, I guess.

I wish that I could say that I was less than a hypocrite. My ethics and mores are not the same as another. I rail at people for doing that when I go and do this. Let's say both are legally wrong. I have no problems with breaking the laws that I don't agree with. It's the same with you. Just be sure that I don't catch you doing what is not cool with me.

If we get caught, we've done wrong. If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one in attendance, does it squash a molehill? :p

[SPEEDO]

If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one in attendance, does it squash a molehill?

The answer is YES I heard it...:t

SPEEDO

[wallie_x]

I agree. Any open forum should be based on freedom of speech. That was the intended purpose of our founding fathers. However, freedom of speech does not give free license to say anything you like. You should not yell, 'FIRE' in a crowded auditorium, because of the potentially fatal consequences of the action. Freedom does have limitations. The problem is that people interpret the laws and premises as if they were absolutes. Example: I do not agree with one of the Supreme Court's recent rulings regarding computer generated child pornography. I do not think freedom of speech means that we must tolerate pedophiles who wish to nurture their pedophilia with child pornography. That places more children at risk of being violated by these perverted preditors.

[BipolarBill]

:x

[wallie_x]

Bunkskunk,
To clarify: I am not as anti-freedom as you so sterotypically asserted; I am anti-vice. I do not think it should be promulgated. And hiding under the banner of free speech should in no wise offer vice or corruption safe haven. I am not a puritanical moralist. I even believe that prostitution should be legalized to a limited extent. It would allow an outlet to those members of society that do not have the spiritual outlets some of us take for granted. And I wonder if the soilders you so patriotically supported in your last entry would have fought and died for the America we see today? I kinda doubt if a person from the 1940's would even recognize the America of today, let alone give his life to support the tailspin dive toward absolute secularism.

[SPEEDO]

I kinda doubt if a person from the 1940's would even recognize the America of today, let alone give his life to support the tailspin dive toward absolute secularism.

Where the hell did you come from? You surely are not an American..:mad:

SPEEDO

[BipolarBill]

Freedom of speech is one of the pillars of our democracy. It pales, however, when compared to the importance of the separation of church and state. If you think I'm wrong, look at all of the hotspots on the globe and the dictatorships that we revile. All have religion and government mingled.

As moral as we may be, the law must remain free of religious influence.

[wallie_x]

Speedo,
Perhaps not as American as you I suppose; but please let us not resort to name calling. Freedom of speech means I am entitled to my own opinions. I attempt to justify them with rationale, not stereotype. In your mind then just who is an American? Someone who only fits your definitions?

[wallie_x]

Bipolar Bill,
If I may refute your statement. The idea of separation of church and state was based on the premise of separation of powers. In medieval times and up unto the times of the colonies here in the US, there was no separation. A king would not move to enact a decree without the sanction of the church. If one were to enter into a hearing before the king one would see three seats of power: the king, then the queen and then the Cardinal. Church and state were inextricably intertwined. One did not move without the sanction of the other. Our fore fathers saw the absolute danger in this. By decree a king, with the churches blessings, could evoke divine sanction. We see this very perversion taken to its limits in the suicide bombers of Palestine. Murder takes on the cloak of being divinely orchestrated. Bombers are hailed as martyrs, promised paradise if they but sacrifice their lives in service to Allah. This perversion must stop. But what also must stop is the constant attack against the value of human life. We are spiritual beings enwrapped in human flesh, love is the foundation of our existence. If we are not nurtured in love by our parents when we are but infants, we can never hope to attain the potential we are born with. Children thrive in an environment where they are loved. They wither in an environment devoid of it. That in itself should tell us something about our nature. We should listen to the whisperings deep in our souls; instead of existentially trying to alter them in accordance to our own definitions

[SPEEDO]

wallie_x

Someone who only fits your definitions?

Not my definitions but the people from the forties who gave their lives so that you can babble on about your freedom of speech and the right to your own opinions.

Things would be a lot different if it were not for those brave souls.

SPEEDO

[SPEEDO]

This thread has gone way off topic and I'm done with it have fun..:rolleyes:

SPEEDO

[wallie_x]

Sorry, but your accusatory statement about me being un-American was bigoted if not shallow. Having no recourse to logical argument, of course you must bail out. Our servicemen who have died in wars supporting our country should be honored with respect. They died for the values I am exercising right now. However, you honor them with distain; since I don't think like you do, my freedom of speech should thus be limited.

[BipolarBill]

If I may refute your statement. Wallie..what are you thinking? You didn't refute my statement, you endorsed it. You are feeling very confrontational, aren't you? You see arguments and enemies where there are none. I think you need a drink.

I said that separation of church and state is a pillar of our democracy. What was your counterpoint again?

[wallie_x]

My point? That our forefathers never intended a separation of Judeo-Christian ethics from government. Now day’s separation of church and state means an absolute separation. i.e. The government cannot be the purveyor of Judeo-Christian values. Yet it has been those very same values that have been the social glue that held past societies together. "Love your neighbor as your self" should be taught to all people, especially children. But we don't teach them virtue. Why? because our sacred cows, such as freedom of speech, demand allegiance, not introspection of their flaws.

[BipolarBill]

I can't and won't argue that. I do know that healthy debate is good for this and every country. Although I am liberal at heart, I am conservative of mind. That makes me whole in reality and helps me keep my sense of fairness, balance and humor - the last being the most important!

Although I admire the Judeo-Christian ethic and think that more of it would be a good thing, I will not cram it down anyone's throat because the ACLU says that I shouldn't. :p

[wallie_x]

I do hope that your last statement about the ACLU was a pun. If you are trying to goad me into confrontation over civil liberties, I side with Spock, "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few." Star Trek II ‘The Wrath of Khan.” I think the tenant of individual rights has been taken to its perverse extreme. Since when should the majority be silent in deference of the few? School prayer stands out. Should the many be silenced of their rights to, "Freedom Of Religion" because the one might find school prayer offensive? Why can't the atheist be tolerant in respect to another’s believe, instead of demanding such practices be stopped? Such views breed bigotry, not sociality. Our Constitution and Declaration of Independence breathe Judeo-Christian values. Why is it that the Declaration of Independence begins with these words, “We hold these truths to be self evident that all people are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." These rights are not endowed by the state, government or king; they are endowed by God. But these “self evident” truths have now been lost in a sea of moral relativism. The premises that have made our country great, are now being cast by the way side in a pervese interpretation of "Separation of Church and State."

[BipolarBill]

Lets just say that I disagree and I think that you are wound a wee bit too tightly, my friend.

[wallie_x]

Reality of realities all is subjective. Yes I have been wound up tight lately. I just recently passed boards to become a registered nurse, and yes I see a side of reality most people don't see. I tend the sick and the dying, and am usually overwhelmed because my patient load is too great. I see the perverse ethics that have made medicine a shambles: its called HMO's. The more money a HMO makes the less there is to treat patients properly. People are dying because someone wishes to make a profit. Yes on this memorial day we should honor our veterans, but there are also other people dying to support our freedoms. Just ask the poor black kid in the ghetto, who has a one in ten chance of being murdered by a handgun before reaching the age of 18. Their dying because some NRA person wishes for his freedom to include the right to own handguns. We will not enact laws that would outlaw handguns, because "The Right to Bear Arms" is another one of our sacred absolute cows.

[BipolarBill]

I hear you. I'm both a Navy veteran and and X-Ray technician - for 22 years. The Serenity Prayer comes to mind.

[wallie_x]

Very true. Yet there is that part of me that must be a shadow of John the Baptist. Some times I feel like I'm alone, a voice "crying in the wilderness". John dared to speak out against the tyranny and hypocrisy he saw in his world. He later paid the ultimate price, and so did Jesus. He confronted people who would rather murder than repent, and so he ended up dying a most horrible death on a cross for his beliefs. He refused to conform to the world, so the world killed him, just as it also killed a latter day prophet: Martin Luther King. I am thankful that we have progressed some. At least to the point where I may speak freely without endangering my life.