making a fridge to act as a cooling unit

[skywalker[TSG]]

hmm i was thinking of somehow making some cooling system of a fridge but im wondering about condensation do u have any thoughts about this ???

[zodwell]

What about submerging the whole computer in a non-conductive, cooled, heat transfer fluid(from Dow chemical??)? Condensation wouldn't be a problem (leaching contaminates from the system may be, if they caused any conductance....

You would have to set up a conductivity meter in the fluid, which would shut down the system powers if the conductance was raised over a certain point....

I'm not sure how HD drives would work, and it might suck cleaning off your OEM Win 98 CD after repair installs.

On second thoughts...bad idea.


Oh yeah...has anyone ever seen a CPU extension cable?...basically it would function as an extension cord. You could just drop the cpu in a nice cooling medium (again with the cooled heat transfer fluid).

Latency may be a problem, along with voltage.

It's been a long day.

[zodwell]

Sorry about the previous message...I got off the subject...

Try filling the fridge with an appropriate amount of dessicant. This should keep the moisture levels to a minimum. You'll have to regenerate it though (by baking in an oven until a color change occurs). This may not eliminate all of the condensation worries.

[a Bill]

By using the refrigerator, I'm guessing that it will be running. If it is a newer model, it dehumidifies on its own. Just leave the door closed. The freezer would be better though http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Nathan]

If it's one of the newer ones, just drill a small enough hole in it to allow for the cords and cabling. You can use the Silicone glue to seal up the hole after you run the cords.

[skywalker[TSG]]

hmmm CPU extension cords do they exit becuse it they do then i can put only the CPU in the freeser of fride besides my coke cans :-)
where du one get dessicant i live in sweden guys
submerging the comp hmm i need more info on this subject

nathan your idea interests me what you are saying is that i put the mobo in the fridge and then running all devices on the outside right ?

come on guys help me so that i can run my p2450@600 or maybe even 700
it will post at 558 but not run for long because of heat
have yet to try 600mhz because of the massive ammount of heat it will produce

[skywalker[TSG]]

hey guys how come you are so quiet i need help here

[Nathan]

Patience. There are time differences here.

Basically do the above when trying to remove the moisture. That's very important. Just put the whole CPU case with everything installed in it inside the fridge. Then drill your holes in it. But it's very important to keep that moisture out of it.

[skywalker[TSG]]

hmm well if the moisture is frosen is it still dangerous ??
and what about when i open the fride ??

[toms111]

If you want to realy be cool, check out these guy's stuff:
http://www.kryotech.com/

[LED]

How about using an airconditioner???..Works and the condinsation is left outside http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[ENVY]

Hardocp has an article about a guy(Dr.Freeze)that submerged his entire MB in a mineral oil solution that was constantly being pumped over the condenser coils of a raped AC unit.
System actually functioned very well and very cool!I guess he did'nt realize that pcb does not like mineral oil and over time will experience disintegration.Good read though.

[zodwell]

How about just using compressed air. You could run an air line from a compressor in another room (as you all know, they are very noisy). Again, you would need to be sure that all moisture was removed from the supplied air (possibly very difficult and expensive, but they do it in automotive spray coating applications)...and you would have to be sure the computer case was sealed (except for a small vent) so it would be under a positive pressure from the compressed air source, so no ambient air could get in. You would have some condensation on the outside of the case, but with the proper gutter setup, you could channel it away...

This would be the equivalent of putting the computer inside the coils of an air conditioner.

If your really handy, you could create a closed system, and recycle the air...better even yet, replace the air with a high molecular weight inert nonconductive gas. I wouldn't recommend radon.

You may need a government grant to fund the project.....now is a good time to try..with the surplus and all.

Sorry about the novelette; sometimes I think while I type.

Zodwell.

Please note...this is all conjecture, and not based on empirical data...

I just had another idea...if you could coat all metallic components in the system with a non-conductive caulk (maybe silicon), you wouldn't have to worry about moisture at all.

[Nathan]

Yes it is dangerous.

As to opening it, put your beer in another refrigerator.

[skywalker[TSG]]

hmm well im looking for a low cost solution since an AC costs 2000$ its not an option but i have thought of instead of putting the comp in a fridge that i could somehow lead the cold air from the fridge to the comp somewhat like kryotechs solution but i have also taken a look at project kool and it seems like a good solution but i think my idea may work even better i will post more on this as sone as the prototype unit is operational

[Carlos Kerr]

Hey Skywalker, what about dry ice?........

[skywalker[TSG]]

well dry ice first off its really cold i think it might damage system comoponents but maybe if i put it in some container and then somehow move the cold air to the comp maybe by some sort of tubes but wouldent i need huge ammounts because it would melt all the time and this make some pricetag after somewhile my budget cant go over 500$ for this project so i dont know really if dry ice is an option but i will keep it in mind i will start on my first prototype as sone as i get some money i perhaps im gona need some funds for this project

[a Bill]

Kryotech units don't move air, they move a refrigerant. Big big difference. Air does not transfer as much heat.

Automotive spray booths (this is in reference to an earlier post) use rather expensive dessecant dryers so they are not a viable option. Plus, air doesn't cool as well as liquids or solids.

Dry ice won't last long enough to be of use for more than a day or so. So that's out too.

Why do you need the unit chilled? Some things are better left to those with more dollars than sense. The gain from super cooling is not equal to the cost.

[zodwell]

A good point about supercooling. For a few hundred $$$ you could get a new dual motherboard (check out the ABIT dual celeron), and a second CPU.

But a custom cooling system would be so much more fun, even if it costs some serious $$$.

[skywalker[TSG]]

well money is not a problem i have big amounts of this lol but i want to design a cheap cooling system so i can spend my heard earnt money on something else

maybe if i get a cheap AC and then blow that cold air directly on the comp i bet i i have a roomtemp of 10c then the comp would lie a few degrees above that but it aint a viable soloution for longterm use

what i would like is a solution somewhat like kryotechs but that would cool the entire comp not only the cpu

i had one thought and that is if i have my freeser and somehow move that cold air from the freeser to the comp

[a Bill]

You're not reading the posts, air is a lousy cooler. Remember, what feels hot or cold to you and me means absolutely nothing to a machine. Your automobile engine is comfortable at 195F and cold at 160F while your freezer is warm at 35F.

You can't think in human terms, you must think in mechanical terms. Kryotech systems chill the CPU to -40F (I think that's right) and you want to chill the entire system. A freezer is an OK start but you'll need to insulate the freezer better and improve the compressor to really get anything worthwhile out of it. Then you're going to have problems with the accessories like HDDs that like it cool but not cold.

Surf the web a while, you're looking at doing what many have already done and passed over for better things. It never hurts to try though. Good luck with the project.

[Carlos Kerr]

Skywalker-use the force...Hey since money is no object [$500 being slightly optimistic], can you relocate? Maybe to an ice-station in the Artic? Then you could put your CPU outside and just snake the cables under the door of your igloo. It is relatively dry, definately cool, and a great place to work indoors. Carlos.

[This message has been edited by Carlos Kerr (edited 07-03-99).]

[zodwell]

I do agree. Air is a lousy conductor for heat if compared to any fluid cooling, however, if you are using forced convection, you can greatly improve the amount of heat transferred (i.e. a high CFM fan). I'm guessing there is a limit to this however, there will probably be a temperature difference of 5-15 F between the CPU and the air temp, (as you approach infinite flow, you should approach equal temperatures, but you can't get an infinite CFM fan at Radio Shack, even for $500).

Try opening the case, and put a window box fan directly on the inside (use 3m electrostatic furnace filters on the suction side of the fan), and see if your CPU temp is reduced.

Warning! watch out for dust and dirt getting into the computer.

and also...Do not stick your fingers into the fan, especially if it has metal blades.

Gotta run, tornado warning going on.

Zodwell.

[skywalker[TSG]]

hey i know air isn´t the best conductor but hey thats what i have to work with


the 500$ maximum price tag is becuase i want to make a somewhat cheap unit for instance PROJECT KOOL had a price tag of 300$ and it worked

and ive presonnaly meassured a fridge get down to -25c im currantly running my p2 450@504 and the cpu temp is 37c im NOT trying to get <0c im just aimimg for this to work then when im getting the hang of this because it sounds soooo easy when u think about it ive been planing this for 2months and this is how far i have gotten

im also not making this into the biggest thing on the planet all i want to do is getting the cpu to run at a temp lower than ambient this i can do by moving the cold air from the freezer to the comp then the comp should have a temp lower than the room were it lives

[Ed_S]

Have heard others talk about trying this, one thing always seems wrong about the concept.
A refrigerator or freezer is intended to cool things that are not actively producing heat to a preset temp, then maintain. Takes hours to properly cool these items, what good can it do for a computer producing large amounts of heat? Seems this would not produce much results, but risks damage to both machines. Computer though potential condensation (almost certain) and 'fridge through running too much, will not cycle on/off properly as it can never reach the thermostat's temp setting.


[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 07-03-99).]

[skywalker[TSG]]

well as said before this is only a test and this setup wont stay on for any period of time until i solved the problem with condensation i just want to make it work

[Andre]

Sorry if somebody already said this:
Kryoteech actually have an extension cord on one (or more) of their supercooled K6(-2)

[a Bill]

I can't help too much with using air as a coolant but I do know that if the air is kept circulating, condensation will be reduced dramatically. The more airflow, the less condensation. You'll still want to use dehumidified air, but airflow will help you even if there is still some moisture in the air.

Some commercial freezers hit -45f (below zero) so you might want to look around at them to examine their technology.

Ed_S is right about common refrigeration units not being able to do active cooling for extended periods. A computer shouldn't overwork it but it could. That's why Kryotech only tries to cool the CPU. The refrigeration unit they use is too small to cool the entire case. By concentrating on the actual hot spots of the circuitry, you can get more cooling from less equipment (That sounds weird).

[zodwell]

Sounds cool to me.

Get out the reciprocating saw and the duct tape.

Zodwell

[bringspeed]

hmm, maybe just me, but i'm running a p2 450, (on a proprietary mobo, yuck!)and i don't seem to need any more speed. but i can see the fun in playing with it =) and, as my last 'puter was a 486 25(now there's a challenge), i prob don't have a good frame of reference. i would be seriously concerned about all things that spin when putting the whole thing in the fridge. i've had HD's that had a hard time spinning up in a cold garage, much less a fridge. another reason why kryotech units only cool the processor. oh, and while i'm on the subject, there are two models of kryotechs, one cools to minus 40, and one doesn't cool that low(not sure what temp exactly) and cost many less moolas.