ECS Motherboard Opinions

[dmoltrup]

A friend of mine is getting ready to purchase a motherboard. The two he has in mind is the ECS K7AMA or the K75SA. The major difference between them, so he says, is one has a SiS chipset, and the other is ALI. Any known issues with these two?

[dmoltrup]

ESC K7AMA Specs:
CPU
Full series of Athlon/Duron CPUs including the future Athlon processors

Motherboard Chipset
Ali Magic 1645 northbridge
- 100/200 & 133/266MHz FSB support.
Ali Magic1535D+ southbridge
- ATA-100 support
- AC97 audio.

Memory
Can use either DDR or SDR(Only one memory type at once)
2x 184 pin DIMM slots (DDR)
- Max 1.0 GB RAM
- Supports PC1600 and PC2100
2x 168 pin DIMM slots(SDR)
- Max 1.0 GB RAM
- PC133 / PC100

Expansion slots
- One AGP slot 4x (also supports 1x and 2x)
- Four PCI slots (32-bit)
- One AMR slot

On-Board IDE
- Southbridge 1535D+ ATA-100 support
- Total support for up to 4 IDE units

Peripheral support
- Floppy
- Two - 16550 high-speed serial I/O port
- 1 parallell port (EPP, ECP)
- 4 USB ports
- Audio in/out/mic
- 1x Game port
- PS/2 connectors. 1 PS/2 mouse, 1 PS/2 keyboard.
- RealTek 8139C Ethernet chip with LAN header
- IrDA Cable header

BIOS
- AMI BIOS

[dmoltrup]

ECS K7S5A SPECS:
PROCESSORS
AMD® Athlon (K7) processors
Full series of Athlon/Duron CPU including the future Athlon processors

CHIPSET
SiS® 735 System Chipset
Super I/O and LPC - ITE8705F
System Hardware Monitor: Built-in ITE8705
LAN: MAC integrated in SiS735 & PHY on board (Optional)
AC97 Audio Codec
MEMORY
2 DDR DIMM sockets and 2 DIMM sockets support (can not be used simultaneously)
Two 184-pin DDR SDRAM (DDR200, DDR266) or
Two 168-pin 3.3V SDRAM (PC100, PC133)
Maximum: 1.0GB (DDR or SDRAM)

SYSTEM BIOS
AMI 2MB Flash EEPROM
Supports Plug and Play 1.0A, AMP 1.2, Multi Boot, DMI
Full Support for ACPI revision 1.0 specification

I/O INTERFACE
Supports Plug and Play function
PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse connectors
Dual USB Ports and LAN connectors
One - EPP/ECP mode parallel port
Two - 16550 high-speed serial I/O ports
Audio Ports (Line-in, Line-out, Mic-in, CD-in and game port)
Dual PCI IDE interfaces - support four IDE devices (PIO mode 4, DMA Mode 2, Ultra DMA 33/66/100)
Supports 360K~2.88M Byte, 3 Mode FDDs or LS120
ATX Power Supply Connector
ports, Headers and Others:
IrDA Cable header
Extra USB header
Two CD-In headers
Front Panel MIC/Line-out header
HDD LED, ACPI MSG LED, Reset Switch, Power Switch headers
CPU and Case Fan headers
Modem Ring Wake Up Header

RTC & BATTERY
SiS® 735 included 256 bytes of CMOS SRAM
With CMOS SRAM hardware clear jumper

EXPANSION SLOTS
5 PCI slots, 1 4X AGP slot, 1 AMR slot

FORM FACTOR
ATX (304mm*244mm), 4 Layers

[polygon]

I have a small 10 computer gaming network. I've tried many of the new mobo's as they have come out. Right now I have 8 systems using the K7S5A, 1 system using the K7S6A, and 1 system using Slotek 75DRVS(KT266A). They are all running either 1.4Gig T-Birds or XP1700 CPU's. I have gotten rid of ASUS(Ali-magic), EPOX(KT266&AMD760) boards for various minor but never-the-less annoying issues.
While the K7S5A isn't the most stable and has a few remaining issues, it appears to be the fastest of them all. There are OC Bios's(via FSB) available for it. And to $52 it cannot be surpassed. The K7S6A and the SL75DRV2 represent the height of stability....just my 2 cents......

[cableguy69]

That's a pretty good recommendation from polygon there. I got the K7S5A for my g/f with a 900mhz Duron. We had some problems at first with installing it. The biggest prob we had was just with the vid card, it needed to be reseated then it was fine. Also, had to use the drivers right from the SIS website, they worked better than the ones provided. But all in all I like the board. And the option to use DDR or SDRAM is really nice.
Good luck picking. Oh, I seen this mobo at Fry's Outpost (http://www.frysoutpost.com) for $52.00.

:)

[chaskuss]

I can't speak to the virtues/vices of the ESC K7AMA . I have built 3 machines using the K7S5A, one of which is my own machine. I found them easy to set up and install. One machine with Me and 2 with 2000 Pro.
One note. Win2KPro will not install a driver for the onboard audio chip for this board. Simply go to Windows Update website to download the appropriate driver.
My friends and I are all very happy with the K7S5A.

[Ares Dracofyre]

I have a K7AMA Board and after flashing the bios it respects my Athlon XP 1700 and it's great I enjoy it anyway

[delusional247]

the k7s5a sucks...plain and simple.
Using the SiS 735 chipset and nothing goes the way it should with this board. If your running this board, don't try to put any new it. G4? Don't even try it. Doesn't work with this board

[otheos]

The K7S5A has been and still is the best buy for the Socket A platform. It offers excellent performance, stability and an unchallenged price.

Like every other board you just need to set it up right :)

[deadkenny]

ECS would not be my first choice for a mobo manufacturer. However, I've never been particularly impressed by any Ali chipset, whereas the SiS735 chipset is interesting for a couple reasons.

[chip55]

Hello
I got the ECS K7vma....ARF!!! Here Doggy fetch the pretty frisbee!!!
This board is unstable.
I know why ECS don't make it anymore.

be well
chip55:D

[Peter M]

K7S5A is the better choice. It has the faster chipset, one more PCI slot, and the LAN directly integrated into the chipset (read: off the PCI bus). The ALi chipset also still connects the south bridge (IDE, sound, USB) through the main PCI bus, which limits the bandwidth left to PCI cards even more. The SiS approach has it all in one chip, with high speed internal interconnects.

Besides, at least where I live the K7S5A is cheaper than K7AMA - this comes natural since the SiS 735 single chip is the more cost effective solution.

regards, Peter

[Peter M]

Forgot to say a few things ...

The boards also appear as PC-Chips M817LR and M830LR respectively. The 830 aka K7S5A comes either with simple stereo sound or a 4-channel codec, if you mind the onboard sound, make sure you get the latter.

Then there's a brandnew board in the pipeline, M846FLR. This uses SiS 745 chipset, has DDR slots only, offers FireWire and LAN right away, plus 5 PCI and one AGP.

regards, Peter

[wallie_x]

Asus has just dropped a bomb by coming out rather unexpectedly with their new A7S-333 mobo with a Sis 745 chipset. This board is offered for $65 bucks!! and with OC features to boot!!! Forget low quality ECS and spend $6 bucks more and get some real quality. :cool:

[otheos]

Forget low quality ECS

What makes you think ECS is low quality?

[wallie_x]

There is a forum at another international web site the I subscribe to. They dedicate their forums according to motherboard make. The ECS forum is not only the biggest (thanks to the value of the K7S5A) it is also the one with the most frustrated owners trying valiantly to solve the many numerous issues with the above board. Most issues center around quality and weird behavior, not nuances of chipset. The Sis 735 is an excellent, stable chipset. The problem was with ECS's quality control, which I would rate as mediocre.

And who would buy ECS when a brand name like Asus sporting a great chipset (the Sis 745) with their known mobo quality, buy ECS? :cool:

[otheos]

While I do not follow that other forum (amdmb?) I am sure people are complaining. But make sure you realise that this is a "selection effect" as people in forums come typically to solve a problem, and most will complain. 9 times out of 10 however it's the quality of other parts that is hindering stability. RAM/PSU mainly.

The problem was with ECS's quality control, which I would rate as mediocre.

ECS is the largest (in volume) motherboard manufacturer, and specifically OEM. You wouldn't really believe they build low quality motherboards and manage to fool all their large customers now would you. Of course the don't. It is companies without OEM sales that are commonly lacking quality control (see Abit).

As for who'd buy an ECS over an ASUS, personally I wouldn't mind at all. Maybe you should go to that other forum's Asus section and see what Asus users have to say. Again, most will complain.

What really makes you believe that Asus has better quality than ECS?

[Antix]

As far as I am concerned, I am impressed with this board. Fast as grease lightning, whips my old KT133A. Very stable as well.

Current Specs:

K7S5A 3.0
Cheepoman's BIOS
Athlon 900 (Reads 933 /w 100.9 FSB)
256MB PC133 Micron @ 2-2-2

[Beeblequix]

A few months back I was looking at various options for my upgrade. The ECS k7s5a was on my list of potentials because I'd heard good things about that chipset. What dissuaded me from buying that board was complaints I've read about in various forums wherein people complained about the memory problem. That is, tons o' people were stating that their DDR2100 memory would only run at DDR1600 speeds, and that their 1.4+ Ghz Athlons wouldn't run at fsb 2*133, only at 2*100. ECS has denied design flaw (at least they did when I was researching this board). That really angered a lot of people because they couldn't get the performance they paid for. I'm not sure if that was only from revision 1.00 mobos or if it continued on later revisions. But that information, plus doing actual research on other boards led me to choose a very solid board in the Asus A7V266-E. I'm not telling you to buy this board, but I'd advise against the K7S5A until you're certain that it's not going to give you this problem.

Otheos, while I respect your opinion I do not agree with it. The reason ECS has taken the top spot in mobo manufacturing is because of the chipsets they use, namely SiS and Ali, and their implementation of integration. You'll have to understand that those chipsets are much cheaper to produce than AMD's 760, the Intel 850 or Via's Kt___., although they do have them available. The SiS chipsets are 1 chip designs, which from a fabrication standpoint are hands down the cheapest way to go. I know that they also sell boards with more expensive chipsets and designs and that's good. But it's the value segment they appeal to most. OEM companies love to see any kind of savings so they buy these more integrated boards which they convert into higher profits from pc sales. They carry a broad range of boards too. Take a peak at their lineup:

P4IBAS - $90 i845 Chipset, 6 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 CNR, 3 PC133 DIMM, 478-pin, Audio, ATX

P4S5A - $67 Socket 478, SiS645 chipset, support Pentium 4, 2 DDR/SDRAM, 1 AGP, 1 AMR, 5 PCI, w/ audio, LAN

P4ITA - $59 RETAIL BOX 2YR. WARRANTY w/Sound 4Rimm DMA 100 5P1CNRxAgp ATX

P4IBMS - $59 SOCKET478,I845,3PCI,AGP4X,CNR,SO UND,LAN,3DIMM,UDMA100,MICRO ATX,RETAIL, 1 Year Dealer Warranty

P4ITA2 - $59 Socket 423,Intel Tehama 82850 chipset, support Pentium 4, DMA 100, 1 AGP, 1 CNR, 5 PCI, w/ audio

K7S6A - $59 Socket A, SiS 745 chipset, support AMD Athlon, Duron, 3 DDR SDRAM, DMA 100, 1 AGP, 1 CNR, 5 PCI, 2 USB, w/ audio.

K7S5A - $47 Socket A, SiS chipset, Athlon / Duron, ATX, 1 AGP, 1 AMR, 5 PCI, w/ audio & LAN

K7SEM - $45 SIS 730 CHIPSET - 266 FSB, SDR & 2 DDR, ATA100, ATX, AthlonXP READY On-Board Audio & 10/100 LAN. 2 SDRAMs, 2PCI, 1AGP, 1AMR, 1CNR. Retail Box

P4VXMS - $34 VIA 845PRO P4 Socket 423 MicroATX mboard with Sound/Lan

The thing you'll notice about these ECS boards is how inexpensive they are. Their most expensive board can be found on pricewatch for as little as $90. And price is a huge factor in how people will respond to your product. Geez, after looking at this price list I'm half tempted to build another system. :) Go look at Asus' lineup and you'll see you can spend a _lot_ more. Asus' product line appeals to people with money buring a hole in their pockets. My A7V266-E lists for $105; their other popular boards sell for more. For example, the

A7V333-R lists for $149 with raid/ $110 without.

They have some cheaper models:

Asus P4S333m sells for $71(Socket 478,Sis 645,3PCI,ACR,AGP4X,3DDR,UATA-100,Audio,LAN,Micro ATX,(1)ACR(1)4XAGP (3)DDR (184PIN) ATX), a few bucks more for the Asus board, and carrying with it the reputation from the Asus name.

My point is that Elitegroup's boards are targeted at the value segment where Asus is really aimed a bit higher. Were I to buy a new value pc I'd still opt to get an Asus board with a Sis or Ali chipset.

B.Quix

[otheos]

A7V333-R lists for $149 with raid/ $110 without.

So you say that $39 for a $4 chip and two $0.50 connectors (the difference between the R and non-R) is justifiable? Asus is just charging more. That's it. It's using poeple's hunger for high performance, and with elegantly plotted results on benchmarks that show 2% difference like it is 200%, they manage to charge $150 for their motherboards.

It's all in the mind of the people. The fact that a board costs $60 and another $150, does it mean the latter is proportionally more expensive to manufacture? NO! Actually it offers absolutely nothing more than 2% better performance and a lot of hype (oh and a crappy softRAID controller).

People are free to buy what they want. That's a matter of taste and is completely subjective. What is a good buy though is still objective and there's no way to turn it around just because some want to justify spendig 2x on a motherboard (that still doesn't offer any sort of support, at least EPoX does).

[Beeblequix]

As of 05/13, prices taken from pricewatch:

the A7V333 without raid $110, with raid $131,difference $21.
Same reseller. I don't remember where I saw the $149 price tag, but it's not up there now. This is just a correction from my last post. I don't think they were from the same reseller though, and the last updated dates on those sites could be very different. My mistake.

So Otheos' question should read:
So you say that $21 for a $4 chip and two $0.50 connectors (the difference between the R and non-R) is justifiable? Asus is just charging more. That's it. It's using poeple's hunger for high performance, and with elegantly plotted results on benchmarks that show 2% difference like it is 200%, they manage to charge $131 for their motherboards.

Similarly, my mobo isn't the one listing for $105. That's the one without RAID. The RAID model lists for $119, same reseller. That's a $14 dollar difference, or 13.33% more expensive. The newer A7V333 with RAID is 16.03% more than the non-RAID board.

MSI: the 6380E KT3 ULTRA-ARU with RAID sells for $105 and $79 without RAID, same reseller, the RAID board being
24.76% more than the non RAID.

The Abit KX7-333 with RAID lists for $128, without lists for $110, same reseller, a price difference of 14.06%

Otheos,
Your statement that the '$4 chip and two $0.50 connectors (the difference between the R and non-R does not summarize the difference between these boards. You've forgotten to take into account the development of onboard RAID 0 and 1, which according to this sample of motherboard manufacturers (Asus, Abit, MSI) commands a higher premium than simply the wholesale cost of connectors and promise raid controllers. Other variables have to enter in, like driver development teams, pcb designers, manfacturering the different lines, and quality testers. That $5 you're referring to still has more overhead involved. For people interested in higher performance, this feature is worth the extra $15 or so. So, because of the nature of supply, demand, and the costs associated with it, the 'hunger' people seem to have is not being used, but rather addressed. They would be used if there were no percieveable difference between the 2 boards. But I tend to think these people can see the difference, and I don't think they're mindless goobers believing any hype that comes along.

:The fact that a board costs $60 and another $150, does it mean the latter is proportionally more expensive to manufacture? NO! Actually it offers absolutely nothing more than 2% better performance and a lot of hype (oh and a crappy softRAID controller).
This statement really doesn't mean anything. You're measuring things in extremes and do not seeing the whole picture. Why did you include that qualifyer 'proportionately'? Simply stated, boards with more features cost more to produce, ie: AGP Pro over AGP, higher # PCI slots, more layers in pcb, more DIMM slots, higher max mem capacity, redundant bios', CNRs over AMRs (i hate them both), overclockability, and yes RAID. Also, products with more features become more valuable. Your "2% better performance" numbers are obviously pulled out of the air, and you decry any type of information in the industry as "hype". I cannot speak for everyone, but I for one along with many other intelligent people can distinguish between bs and truth.

Hmmm. I thought I'd put in a few links to show ECS related review info:
<http://www.aselabs.com/articles.php?articleid=16&page=8>
<http://www.aselabs.com/articles.php?articleid=16&page=23>

<http://www.amdworld.co.uk/k7s5a1.htm> (this link advises to "rework" a resistor for better performance. IMHO it wouldn't be necessary had ECS practiced better quality standards)

<http://www.bzboyz.com/service/terms.htm>
(excerpt from this reseller: "...ECS does not offer direct RMA or Technical support ...". I couldn't figure this out since there is a non-toll free number in California to call and an email address to send tech support email to. This reseller must know something that's not blatantly apparant to me.)

I don't really have the time any more today to finish this post, so this will have to do.

Everything in this thread can be summed up in the immortal phrase : "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR."

sincerly,
Beeble Quix

[otheos]

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

Hahaha. Thanks for reminding me. Ever heard of marketing?

BTW those ase links are words in the air. I mean you don't really think ECS the largest volume manufacturer sells unstable boards now do you? Naivity my friend :)

It's not worth arguing about it, you can spend as much as you want on a motherboard, your money your decision. I'm just trying to make you think you might be overspending. I don't do it for me, I do it for you :)

[Beeblequix]

I mean you don't really think ECS the largest volume manufacturer sells unstable boards now do you?

As a matter of fact, that is specifically the problem. You're the one who's naiive in believing that the mighty status ECS has obtained has nothing to do with which segments they're aimed at and how they cut corners. The ECS Elitegroup website itself claims that they're targeted at the value and oem segements, two segements where the majority of people fit in.

Geez mate, you just don't get it. You're conveniently overlooking every bit of fact; it seeminly makes no difference to you to hear of so many problems with ECS' product line. Do you understand the words "cut corners", "inferior", "poor quality". Your statement:
I'm just trying to make you think you might be overspending. is complete nonsense. Were that the case you would at least do a little research, or make your argument more compelling.

Ever heard of marketing?
Now that's just ripe. You believe this marketing door swings only one way, that a company can only implant the idea in one's mind that 'this one is blah blah blah better than that'. History has shown repeatedly that sometimes inferior products take lead because of MARKETING. ECS Elitegroup has done exactly this by marketing poorly designed products to the masses who are willing to sacrifice quality to save a few bucks.

You don't seem to understand any form of macro-ec. You just seem content to believe that ECS's repleate history of selling inferior low quaility and UNSTABLE products somehow has dissappeared in their insurgence to 1st in sales. You're one of those black & white thinkers who will not see reason no matter what. You think I'M NAIIVE? You're the type who, after hearing for years and years of the absence of quality of the YUGO, dismisses conventional wisdom, and smugly tells the whole auto-buying world that they're crazy, that overall the car is a great value. I hear the SUV-update playing now:

~as the snow flies....
~at a used car lot on the edge of town
~a liberal guy, and a liberal gal, buy a Yugo
~and they drive with pride
~'cause if there's one thing that this world needs
~it's environmental friends who will take the lead in a Yugo....

Words in the air? You know, I'm pretty sure that for the most part, the people who post on this forum are reasonably intelligent, and they'll see your "argument"' as vacuuous and transparent. You don't know what you're even talking about. You're essentially trying to turn on its head longstanding wisdom in capitalism. Something of higher quality will command a higher premium for it. The reason a company such as Asus CAN get that premium is for many years of delivering superb products. I don't hear of the constant DOAs and short lived products from Asus that I do from ECS. This perrennial top quality spot owned by Asus allows them to charge more. A company with no history of good and lasting products cannot get that value.

Have you ever heard of resale value in autos? Hondas can still get half its original value after 10 years where Hyundaiis after 10 years are worth scrap value, this owing to the wonderful repair history of the Honda line. This idea, although dealing with cars, can also be applied to other products.

Your little Yugo cannot in any intelligent community COST THE SAME or BE THE SAME VALUE as a Ford F150. An eMachine does not have the same value as a Dell, neither does it have the same type of repair history. A guitar from Shop Ko cannot have the same value as a Fender. Generic no name brand speakers cannot compare to Klipsch Synnergy. My old Canon BJC620 CANNOT compare in quality to my HP.

You've been blinded by cheapness. This notion of yours that it's 100% marketing illuminates this. I'd advise that you reflect on this thread and search for some wisdom.

B.Q.

[otheos]

Wow, thanks.

For a minute I thought you were in love with me, a poem too :)

Then you started yelling about that Yugo of yours. You know we buy Yugos here in Europe because they run great on our expensive (and hence high quality) petrol. Americal petrol, being that cheap.... well what did you expect. You shouldn't have bought that Yugo in the first place.

BTW, what is a Ford F150? Here in Europe Ford is a budget car and it does compete with the Yugo (at least the Fiesta is) hehehe. But of course with a PhD in economics you know you shouldn't be buying a Fiesta. Mercedes may be more expensive but it's high quality and retains it's market value. Oh it's a better car, (I know, I have one :D) no doubt about that, but it doesn't suit everybody's needs (otherwise there would be no reason to buy anything else).

Anyhow, thanks for looking up all these words and taking the time to reply in such a general way about all the aspects of the life of someone who buys ECS over ASUS. BTW I always thought Fender makes great basses but when it comes to guitars, Gibson is better.

It's obvious that that economics PhD of yours does not help you to understand the basics of motherboard manufacturing. You assume to much and you specifically lack and insight to selection effects when you read all these forums. I'll leave it up to you to look up what selection effects are, and if you get around it you will understand quite a few things. Another word to look up: efficiency :)

In the mean time sell that Yugo and buy something better. It's killing you. ;)

Be cool, shop wisely. :)

[deadkenny]

Although there are a couple of interesting threads with 'debates' about the relative merits of ECS and ASUS, I think it would be better if all parties would refrain from making it too 'personal'.

First point I would like to reiterate is that there is more to a hardware purchase than just the actual piece of hardware. The exact same board would justifiably cost more if there was superior support and retail network etc. Second point, what we are often talking about when we mention 'quality' is a relatively small difference is the percentage of 'problem' boards. For instance, lets say company XXX (don't want to stir up fans of any particular company) produces 99% perfectly and 1% that need to be RMA'd. Meanwhile, company YYY, who charges a bit less, produces 97% perfectly and 3% that need to be RMA'd. Now, my point is that this is a minor difference to a large company putting together systems. They will test and identify the the problem boards and RMA them. On a large volume they are likely to encounter some problem boards anyway, and whether they RMA 20 or 50 doesn't make a huge difference to them, if the price difference is big enough. On the other hand, if I'm only purchasing one board for myself, it makes a difference if my chances of a bad board are 3 times higher. Especially so if I have to handle the RMA myself, and be without my board while it's 'in the mail'.

[Ankerson]

deadkenny,

100% Correct :)

Also if you are a system builder (Build systems for other people) like I do you can't afford to RMA a board. My business comes from word of mouth, I can't afford to use cheap low cost motherboards.

I have a good reputation for building stable systems, and I want to keep it that way.

[dmoltrup]

Ford F150:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/trucks/features/F1502_general.gif

In the United States, FORD is a completely different company and class of vehicle than it is in some European countries. I was in Australia, and was appalled to see that the Ford I requested at the rental shop was an 'Escort' type of vehicle, rather than the 'Taurus' or 'Crown Victoria' I was expecting. I ended up renting a Toyota Siena-style minivan, which is a rare site there. Even more confusing was the purchase of "Petrol". The prices were quite familiar with prices we're used to in the United States, ignoring the exchange rate, until you realize that it is sold by the liter. In other words, fuel prices are almost FOUR TIMES as much!
Imagine my shock, when I was filling the tank (with PROPANE, by the way), and the meter on the pump was going CRAZY! It was something like 60-80 Australian Dollars to fill this frickin' minivan!! :eek:

[bmxer]

i think they f-ckin rock

[tombar]

I have a computer shop. We've built over 150 computers using this motherboard. Very happy with it. Very low failure rate.

May be coincidence or bad luck but I've had nothing but bad luck with asus boards. Couldn't get warranty from my supplier and couldn't even get a response from asus.

[wallie_x]

As with most opinions one can quote facts and statistics to justify one's end. However, we must also take into account the odd human nuance of how much validity we ascribe to a source that justifies our position. Humans have the odd disposition of lending greater validity to those voices that support their point of view while, at the same time, discrediting those that refute it. As it was once said: 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.' Less euphemistically put: Reality is in the eye of the beholder.

Qoheleth begins Ecclesiastes: "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity"

I say: "Reality of realities, all is subjective."

But that does not mean that linear relations do not present themselves in terms of high degrees of probability. (In other words I am not saying reality is soley subjective .) ECS has gained massive popularity for both economic and performance issues. Here in the USA we can purchase a new K7S6A for $65. That makes it an appealing value. Where as in other parts of the world with different tariffs, and what not, an Asus board would simply be out of the question due to its price. Let us all take into consideration the whole picture, rather than those which suite only our own ends.